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Denithan

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Everything posted by Denithan

  1. I only just remembered to go back to Dead Zone to see if Escalation was fully revealed, and; https://fanztcg.wordpress.com/escalation-checklist/ How has this not been brought up yet? Anyway, the full checklist is out so I think we're seeing all we're seeing for now. Of note is that Majin Buu got buffed considerably, and he is a fearsome foe now. Some definite pressure from him, and his level 4 is something to be careful of. I'm not 100% sure what Style he'd be most suited to though; Red could definitely help him out with extra damage that he doesn't have innately, but Orange plays the best with his powers. Babidi is largely the same, but a bit smoothed out. The smoothing also seems to have given him some utility he lacked before. I actually really like him giving his allies PUR +2 at Level 4. That's kind of fun. I still think he's largely competing with Cell though, and we'll need to see if the Majin Trait beats out access to Namekian/Saiyan. Majin Vegeta is also largely the same, but I believe his Level 1 has been simultaneously nerfed and buffed. I could actually really see that being a viable option for an MPPV deck though. Outside of personalities; I really like Black Glare, and how it really supports the old Black Android decks. I also really love Black Gut Check and Black Energy Rings. While it's only a handful of cards, I'm actually really happy with the Black Support this set. Some of the Blue Support seems god damn fantastic. Right from the get go, we have Blue Balancing Drill, a card that feels hand-crafted for my favorite deck. The damage mitigation is a bit lackluster, but for level-locking yourself so finely... Yaaaas. Blue Absorption is also pretty nuts, and it's honestly good to see them giving some support to the whole "copying attacks" archtype Blue has got going. I don't think this is enough alone, but a damage negation + copy + anger gain + critical hit is phenomenal. I definitely see this getting some use, although I can't say I see it being in the Top Tier (heh). Blue Security works really well with select decks as well. I'm especially looking at Blue Cell for that one, although I imagine part of the intent was for it to mix with Babidi. It can also be tech'd into just about any Tag Team deck for a quick change of gears. 2 Endurance is also pretty nice to see. The Namekian support is... Hugely disappointing. Not necessarily because it's bad, although I wouldn't say any of them jump out as amazingly good, but because it doesn't play with the new Piccolo all that well. I kind of get it though, since the impression given by the artwork is that these cards are more meant to work between Piccolo and Gohan. In specific though, the Drills are kind of lacking. Manipulation can play fairly okay with Kami, but it's not going to be your go-to drill by any means. Likewise, Empowering Drill has some fun interactions, but a Screen 2/Rejuvenate 1 isn't really what Namekian was looking for. After that, I'd say Namekian Rush and Namekian Reinforced Blast are the really big cards for the Namekians here. Rush is a bit generic, but definitely usable, and Reinforced Blast plays really well with Radiant Cell for punishing the opponent. sighs and is it any surprise? Orange almost irrefutably got the best support (on average) from this. Because, you know, Orange was lagging behind so bloody much. Alright, so that might be a bit unfair of me. Some of these cards probably aren't as good as I feel they are. Attraction Drill is only mediocre, but definitely works wonders for those wanting to keep their vital drills at 1, or even just wanting to maintain their board as much as possible. On the other side, Intensity Drill is honestly just good. On it's own, it's not overwhelming or unfair. Make an attack unpreventable, add a 1 life card poke to everything. But that'll start to stack up quick, and I think anyone who can drop it early will start to see how it adds up over a game. And honestly, dropping it early is incredibly easy. Orange Beatdown is where it starts to get... Hrm. At least for me. Take a swing, and immediately your drills are untouchable for your opponent's next action. Not worded that way, but that's effectively how it plays. Also, here's a free, non-conditional 2 anger, we all know how much trouble Orange has with MPPV. Honestly, I think this was intended to be balanced by lacking Endurance and having Banish After Use, but that doesn't make this card any less amazing imo. This card is almost definitely a 3-of in any Orange deck thanks to the advantages it leverages for free, plus some good stage damage. Orange Elbow Rush and Orange Energy Ball are both also things. They're not really anything special, or new, but they're more of what made Orange decks quite so competitive. Elbow Rush especially, since it's got all the hallmarks of a good card. Some Endurance (only 1, but servicable), no cost for usable damage (AT +3), and if it hits it grabs a drill. It's basically Orange Collision, but scaled down to make up for it searching the Life deck. It also combos exceptionally well with Orange Extension, giving you some incredibly easy Drill access in the early, mid and late game. Energy Ball is a severely nerfed Bicycle Kick imo. This card is probably not going to do too much at all, and I actually think a lot of people will miss it. But it is a viable card, easily hitting for critical damage in combo with... Can we just say Orange in general now? And searching for a drill or set-up for a respectably low cost. Red's support this time around feels a bit weird. Red Burn specifically catches me. I'm not actually sure if anyone will use it. Likewise, I can't be certain if anyone will use Red Dual Punch? It does it's job, and is an INSANELY good card for Red Piccolo/Gohan/Cell, but... Actually, this is just a good card for any Namekian MP. So I give Dual Punch a thumbs up, ig. Sleeper Hold is another one I'm just not sure if anyone will use. I don't think it's really worth the space, and the "play from discard pile" effect isn't all that amazing. The card will do it's job, but will it do it better than other cards Red already has? Eh, maybe. Palm Shot comes up a bit short of Dual Punch, but seems pretty usable. I don't know if anyone will put it in over other cards Red has to offer though. Really, this batch of support for Red feels like a filler to me. ONTO SAIYAN. And honestly, yeah, this is workable. Combative Stance is actually a pretty good card for anyone rocking Rampaging Mastery, and really helps out with Clench decks. Honestly, this is just a pretty respectable addition to the Attach cards of Saiyan. And it's a +/- 0, so any deck that benefits from it will probably run it without worry (and any extra copies can be dropped for Rampaging's Attack). I know some people were a bit meh about this card since it's kind of working for an archetype, but come on guys, we always complain about them not finishing their archetypes. We should be happy to see some support for one. ANNND honestly, I have the exact same feeling towards Flying Kick and Quick Strike. Clench decks are getting some really strong tools between these three cards, with some in-built draw and a flat 6 stage (12 with Clench) attack. This card might actually be a bit too strong given that it lacks any cost, and only offers advantages to it's deck. And if Flying Kick might be a bit too much, I actually think Quick Strike might just be a bit broken. Flat 5 stages (10 with Clench) that hits twice, has good Endurance on it, and... It's kind of ugly. Combine it with Clench Nappa, and you can easily wind up with a 14-16 stage attack that swings twice. Yuck. Forceful Stop is meh, and Massacre is respectable. A bit of a space filler, but good damage, some board control, rejuvenates itself. Alright. And the Freestyles. Honestly, I was a bit nervous looking at these given how some Freestyle cards in the past have completely changed the games landscape. Did they this time? Well, let's see: First off, Deflection Drill is god damn hilarious. I don't think it's great, nor do I think you should make room for it in your deck, but it's another addition of "Let's hard-counter a deck type to balance the game." This time aimed at mill decks. I really love this card, because the mental image of just shutting down your opponent's mill effects and reflecting them is too good. Halt is fine. Kind of just another Sphere for Gods. It only being at 1 is a bit weird to me, but I guess it's to make sure Gods don't have 6 Spheres. It's fine, nothing broken so far. On the Move is the first Freestyle card here I look at, and wonder if it's really good, or just okay. Omni-block, so that's good. Your opponent gets the card back though, so that's... Actually pretty fair. Oh, but you draw 1 card when you use it... So if you use it to block a Personality's attack, you block and draw 1. Wait, AND you gain stages?? I personally think this card is really good. I won't say broken, although I definitely see it swinging some games when you bounce an attack back to the opponent's hand, and then lower their stages so they can't use it. Or using it to stop a Personality's Attack, and getting an extra action that combat out of the deal. It has it's moments where it's straight not fair, but I don't think this card has shit on Unleashed. Reality Check is fine. If your deck needed some extra board control, here you go. Have 3 of it. Does nothing else. Doesn't give you anything else. Just a good utility card, and honestly, one we needed a LONG time ago. And then Concussive Strike. Does exactly what it did before. And honestly, it's just a good card that could work really well in a Clench deck. I wonder if we'll actually see some Clench Decks born from this set. Controlled Energy Burst is awright, 'ey? Honestly, I don't know what to say about this set. Only getting 3 MPs was a bit disappointing, especially since this would've been the time for a new Level 3/4 Goku with SS2/3. Or even just a bit of legacy support to coincide with the many flashbacks of this arc. On the other hand though, I really like the new Clench support, and the odd bits of archetype support here and there really make me feel positive. Then I see the new Orange Support, and I feel cold. I wonder how long until this becomes Orange-Z: The Game. Also, I'm not touching any named cards in here. Almost all of them are the same as before, and we've had that discussion. What say you, Top-Tier? Am I just completely wrong, spot-on, or somewhere in the middle?
  2. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    See, I'm not disappointed that they killed the loop. I figured they would, because no way was it left. But I'm still pretty disappointed with that errata. Theoretically, they could've just made it proc when cards were banished from a non-CONSTANT source. That way, you'd still be able to work with a pretty consistent Black Banish/Mill deck.
  3. Flute/SS3 "Errata"

    This company is a PR mess and all of them would've flunked my course. What bothers me is that these statements and decisions reflect that they are fully aware of the bullshit that is Swap SS3 Goku, and they saw that and went "Yeah, that's how we want this game to be." Wish I could say something more, but these guys honestly seem about as incompetent with making a balanced game as Bushiroad is, and are so stuck up their own arses they won't let anyone say so.
  4. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    Restraint is a yes, Wash is a maybe. At the time, it was a no because there weren't really that many other Ally decks around besides Cell and MAYBE Namekian Gohan, so it was mostly just bouncing your own board which could be really detrimental. Nowadays, I think we have a much wider array of Ally decks, and a lot of Allies that play dual functions in a myriad of decks (Gohan, Krillin, 18), so Wash COULD work. Also, yeah, straight up, Cell's Provocation makes the cut. The Rejuvenation effect is mostly a bonus in the deck, but no matter how we address it, it's still a 4-6 card mill in an Event with no cost, and you can (and probably should) tech in some Rejuv allies like King Cold to guarantee the rejuv goes off. You've kind of touched upon one of the strengths of Cell > Babidi though, in that Cell's Level 2 can drop itself down to 0, so you CAN tech in Allies like Raditz quite consistently. Cell's range is mostly just whatever allies you want + the 1-2 Cell Jrs. you need for his combos and POWER (at this point in the game though, I'd probably just say to run Escaping for the loop. MAYBE Trapped so that you can make up some damage if/when Tora is killed). The big issue is that you need Blue or Freestyle support to pull out the others, but if there was ever a Style to make that convenient... Well, Blue is it. That said, I would say Babidi and Cell are a LOT more comparable than Majin Vegeta and Broly. They both have the same playstyle, MO, and even similar POWERs. Both of them go for hard mills, use the same drills, setups and Masteries, and only really differ in maybe less than 10 cards (not counting Named Cards or Allies) which are optimal/sub-optimal because of their respective tools and their ally line-up. The only huge differences I see is in how they set-up their combos, and what allies they line-up for their turns. And to clarify, I mean 10 card by name, NOT 10 cards different between the decks total. Meanwhile, Majin Vegeta is a level-hopping, unrelenting arsehole who avoids all but a few Freestyle cards. He has a Stage Modifier, sure, but that's about the ONLY thing that gives him a Stage Damage focus and he's not reliant on it to pump out good numbers. Rather, his concept seems much more focused on pushing against Meta decks, with his Level 1 giving crits that can take Dragon Balls or kill off allies early, his Level 2 specifically stopping decks like Babidi and Supreme Kai who have an unholy number of combat enders (not to mention Saiyan Oppressive), his Level 3 mercilessly shredding Drill/Ally/Setup decks while gaining free advantage, and his Level 4 just being a strong attack to seal games after enough disruption. Broly, in comparison, is just a power-house and unrelenting. I actually think he is one of the worst designed MPs in the entire game because he does WAY too much with barely any investment and has no real weaknesses. Cell and Babidi are both ally focused mill decks that use similar boards and a LOT of the same cards. I would call them both the archetypal Blue MP. Broly is a beatdown MP. He is THE Saiyan MP. He charges at you head-first. Majin Vegeta is then the most archetypal Black MP this game's ever seen (ESPECIALLY with his heavy Banish focus), he's just also generic enough where he doesn't need to be played in Black. EDIT: Actually looking at building a Black Vegeta deck, there are a LOT of cool tools he can use. But that's actually brought me to a ruling question; how do Black Punishment and Black Remembrance Drill interact? Because they're both fairly old cards, and they look like they should loop ad-infinitum, so I imagine there's a ruling for that I've not seen.
  5. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    Unfortunately, that's probably one you'll need to take to the Dead Zone (or the Facebook Page). My friends and I have pretty much always played it as, the moment the card is resolved, it goes to drop (unless otherwise stated) so by how we play, Feast would be the one getting rejuvenated. But then, we've also seen time and time again that my particular play group plays the game wrong since we don't really have senior players, judges, or anyone else we can ask questions and we're not going to sit around looking up rulings the one time a month we get together to play :/ Man, Tao sounds like a dick, but I kind of love that such an old MP is still capable of a lot of fun plays and even (mildly) competing with things. That actually just makes me happy, and it shows a good level of game design (whether incidental, or deliberate). Oh, on the topic of if Cell can pull any similar levels of mill in a turn, I don't think it's impossible with him if you get a Cell's Provocation (from hand, or by Rejuvenation) and a Blue Restraint off, or if you're level hopping for that turn, but the pieces needed to make his combos really shine are things you need to draw into. There's also some mention warranted of the Cell's Style mill, but it's not consistent so I wouldn't promote it. So far though, the best I've got is using Cell's POWER first to pull an Ally and Mill 2 (Tora + Arrival Drill), then his POWER to spin an enemy's ally for the Mill (4 on Level 2 with Tora), Cell's Provocation on your own Cell Jr. Escaping to banish (4, then 6 with Tora), Blue Restraint for another 4 with Tora, then either find a way to Level to 3 (Draining Attack), 6 card Mill at 3. So; Cell brings out Cell Jr. - Escaping - Mill 2 Cell spins an enemy's ally - Mill 4 Cell's Provocation - Mill 4 Cell Jr. - Escaping's POWER - Mill 2 Blue Restraint to banish 3 allies - Mill 4 THEN EITHER Cell's LV3 Power - Mill 6 OR End Phase Rejuvenation - Mill 3 Waiting Drill also gives you a Rejuv when you play Escaping at the start of the turn, which might hit a Provocation or another Ally if you're lucky, but I don't want to include those numbers here tbh. You're still stuck pushing to 3, but that is 20+ cards in A turn. Alternatively, you can pull similar things with his Level 1 to 2 (which is infinitely more likely to go off), and if you used Dominance to do it, then you don't lose the End Phase mill. This is also just assuming you have Tora, Waiting Drill and Arrival Drill out at turn start, so there's probably a way to keep pushing it up somewhere I can't see, and it is not an INCONSISTENT setup. I just personally dislike how it needs 3 specific-ish cards in hand, though if you don't jump up to 3, you're still getting a 3 card mill from Waiting and hitting 19-ish cards from the two cards in hand.
  6. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    That was kind of what I was meaning when I said the two are very similar, but Babidi is much more concentrated than Cell is and both a lot safer to play (combat enders), and a lot less safe to play (more vulnerable to control decks). That said, I find it absolutely hilarious that they BOTH have access to Vegeta - Content within their own engines. You are right though, I was off with my numbers for the mill by 2 cards, though that's still a pretty hefty passive move. Also, I didn't take Tora into account there since I was mostly reciting what I remembered. You've got it in one with how the deck boosts up to 2 as well, though it should also be noted that Cell has some innate anger gain at Level 1 that CAN get you to 2 with some very minor input from outside, and strictly speaking, you don't NEED to get to 2 to make the combos work. It just makes you more potent, and enables cards like Blue Restraint to be used with reckless abandon (since you can banish Escaping and 2 other allies from your deck, then just rejuvenate the other two while using Cell to pull the Cell Jr). Just going through cards, I cannot come up with a way for them to hit your number of an 18 card mill without using Draining Attack (or equivalent) to bounce to 3, swinging the POWER, then bouncing back down with a Dominance (and that feels like a rarity). Maybe on turns moving up from 1 to 2, and putting in a Blue Stylish Pose to grab out Escaping twice? Hrm.
  7. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    Cell can spin the opponent's allies for his power, and Cell's Draining Attack can banish up to 5 Villain Allies from either side of the board. It's not the most versatile board control, but it's probably on par with Gohan's Awakening stack for Ally killing, and Babidi literally has no board control for comparisons sake. Beyond that though, he also does have access to more traits and styles, and Cell's Style is a peculiar card that I don't really know how to describe. I guess it's a snipe? I'd offer up a Blue Mill Cell deck for you to try, but truth be told, I never played it myself. I can comment from having versed it a STUPID amount pre-FanZ that the decks don't play anything like the Namekian or Saiyan Versions which are a lot more aggressive. Rather, they tend to focus more on milling you out passively. You're not gunning for his Level 3 ASAP with this deck if you do build it, but rather, only pushing up to it when you're going for game. The non-conditional 5 card mill (because you're going to have allies out, come on) is really strong, but the Level 2 gives you the ability to keep spinning Cell Jr. - Escaping, milling for 4 that then goes into Blue Tag Mastery's rejuvenate with Blue Waiting Drill for a total of 6. Assuming this is still early game as well, and you've only got Escaping and Trapped out, that goes up to 9 cards milled (or 7 if you're stuck on his level 1). The Level 2 also drops his own PL which gives you access to any villain ally's Power. What you do with that is up to you, but I've seen people tech Guldos, Jeices, Dr. Wheelos or whatever else have you. Basically, his level 2 is where it's at for the majority of the match just so you can keep forcing Ally actions and looping Escaping with Tag. I actually used to win games against Tag Cell by forcing them to 3 prematurely, because it lost them all their Ally actions in favor of a single hard mill a turn that actually did less total damage than he WAS doing prior. That said, Cell CAN go for traditional attacks as well if you wanna hybridize the approach. Things like Assisted Kamehameha are just raw value cards, so do what you do. I've also not seen the deck played at all since FanZ dropped, but I'm pretty certain that cards like Security and Tora bolster it up a pretty decent amount. On a side note, my current project with Blue is a Blue Protective Piccolo. I'm probably late to the party (oh, I'm DEFINITELY late to the party), but anchoring his Power to get off Discard synergies is incredibly fun, and I recommend everyone try it. My big issue with the deck right now though is just managing to actually push for game. The deck has a lot of mischief to it, but none of its plays seem to do a particularly large amount of damage, so, you know. Throwing it out there in case anyone has any ideas. I'll probably put up a deck list later after I rummage through it one last time, but I'd love ideas before I do.
  8. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    Not going to lie, all this talk about Ally Builds kind of makes me want to go back and try my hand at some old PanZ builds, like Ally Gohan or Broku. I avoided them entirely the first time around because of how popular and overwhelming they were, but it always did sound like a fun way to play... If only King Kai was better too... That one has never even made sense to me. He trained all the classic Z-Fighters, so why not let him basically play as Babidi, but for the Z-Bois? To be honest, the impression I'm getting from what you're saying and what I've seen around here and there online is that Babidi is a more concentrated, but less versatile version of Cell. His almost sole focus is grabbing his allies out from various places and then milling. He's only got the Majin trait to bolster him up. He's also got a pretty notable edge at Level 3, since he can start grabbing his own allies during the Planning Step and doesn't need to enter combat. Essentially, he does one thing, and one thing only, but as a result, he's a lot faster and stronger at doing that one thing than our previous Ally MPs. My main concern with him is that he doesn't feel like he has an out to big board control, like Awakening Gohan, Broly, Cell, and so on. On the other hand, we all know what Cell has. What makes things interesting on that front (for me) is that Cell has access to all the traits except God and Majin, which gives him an absurdly diverse pool of tech that he didn't really have before. Plus, he makes for a hellishly fun Radiant Personality.
  9. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    Not gonna lie, that sounds pretty amazing. I imagine the deck is somewhat like the old Namekian Gohan and Friends, with it being built mostly around Events, Blocks, Drills and Ally attacks and actions only with a few less cards needed to bring your combo pieces together (since Babidi can permit allies to make actions regardless of his own power stages, and keeps his ally focus from Level 2 up). That said, even what you're laying down there sounds incredibly similar to what the old Cell Ally deck was, with a heavy focus on Ally-based mill. I'd actually love to see Mill Cell VS Babidi just to settle which one of the two is really the King when it comes to this playstyle, though that debate immediately comes back to Cell Jrs/Saiyan Allies VS Majin Allies.
  10. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    I've actually been debating that myself, since I've been playing around with both Red and Saiyan (Dynamic) M. Vegetas. But honestly, I've mostly just used them for level hopping down to 1 in both variants, and then jumping back up to 2 to get a second use out of his in-built Energy Attack. I'm sure there are better uses for him, but thus far, I've not really bothered to swing to 3 or 4 just because I've not run into match-ups where it's really been needed. Both decks tend to have enough board control without the level 3's power, and the level 1's power to banish the discard lets me use key Freestyle cards like Vicious Strike and his named cards without worrying about ruining my own setups. But I do agree. I don't think any kind of MPPV back-up plan works for Vegeta, whether you're using him for level bouncing like I am, or using him for the lockdown and pressure elements elsewhere. And I probably agree that Unleashed is 100% a more worthwhile investment in the deck regardless of your playstyle, since you can just as well use it to bounce down as you can upwards. It offers a lot more utility in his levels than you get with half-hazard MPPV strats, and he loses too much steam later on for dedicated MPPV to be worthwhile.
  11. FanZ Escalation Checklist

    If you're really desperate to escape those few, you could probably swing Hero18 for any of the decks you'd use Yamcha in. Beyond that though, I'm not really surprised that the top decks aren't changing too drastically. The guys at FanZ did say going into this that they were aiming to make cards around their level, as opposed to power-creeping them out. Unfortunately, this has kind of meant that only the cream of the crop ADDS to the old meta without really cycling it out, and honestly, the amount of freezing/errata'ing that would need to be done to balance what PanZ left feels unrealistic. That said, I am surprised we've not seen a few Blue Babidi coming out to contest Cell. Or even the presence of Namekian Radiant Cell, with just the bloody absurd amount of advantage that deck can generate. That said, edits to FanZ cards are pretty simple. I'm actually 100% for erratas to the FanZ creations, since they won't clog up the CRD.
  12. Green Super Mira

    Long story short, my friend and I were losing interest in the Dragon Ball Super card game awhile ago (first with Mecha Frieza, and then again with the SS3 Goku abuse), and we hit a point of wanting to give up the game. Before we did so, we made a list of Leader match-ups we wanted to play out, and one of those was Super Mira VS Final Form Mira (who we affectionately call Darkness Mira). This was the deck I ended up building for that match-up (and oh my, there is so much wrong with it). Leader: Mira/Dark Warrior Mira Battle Cards: 4 Newfound Power Son Gohan 4 Dr Gero, Evil's Inventor 4 Combination Attack, Android 14 4 Encroaching Terror, Android 19 4 Terror Scythe, Goku Black 3 Son Goku (Green) 4 Supreme Kai of Time, World's Protector (Super Combo) 4 Gravy, in Demigra's Thrall 2 Supreme Kai of Time, Continuity Keeper 4 Dimension Support, Trunks 3 Relentless Destruction, Mira 3 Trunks, Power Overseeing Time 3 Invasive Power, Mira Extra Cards: 4 Dark Kamehameha I want to say that I 100% went into that match-up expecting to get utterly destroyed with the power creep on Dark Over Realm, so I didn't spend nearly as much time as I probably should've building the deck. It was mostly made for a bit of a back and forth and laughs, hence why I threw in Dimension Support Trunks and what not. To my surprise, the deck had different ideas, and I ended up sealing the win in all 3 games around 5-6 turns in. Honestly, I think this was just the discrepancy between non-conditional, constant Critical and Darkness Mira's Drop Area refresh. I also opened almost all 3 games with Newfound Power, Son Gohan and Dimension Support, Trunks, so I had a LOT of critical on the board early. But regardless, I've been bored out of my mind lately, and I thought I'd share the deck on here to see if anyone has any thoughts on it, or if anyone else has been doing Leader matches.
  13. Thinking about Gundam

    Mostly posting this because I noticed it the other day, and I've recently discovered that no one else in all my social circles has actually watched the Gundam animes, but; Did anyone else ever notice that Gundam Wing was REALLY focused on Mobile Suits/Dolls instead of Gundams? Like, I grant that this was somewhat of a thing in the original Gundam series (at least until Char got his own Gundam), but remembering that it was establishing the entire extended canon and universe in which everything happened, that was kind of important. And even then, it was always a point that a standard Mobile Suit's performance (less customization) would NEVER match the Gundam, or any of it's successors. Likewise, SEED, 00, even Zeta and ZZ kind of shared this trait. But Gundam Wing kind of went in the opposite direction. At the start of the show, the Gundams are huge power-houses that are able to lay waste to entire armies. But pretty much from when we're introduced to the Tallgeese on, we start to see standard mobile suits that are keeping up with (and sometimes outperforming) the Gundams. The best examples of this are (in my view) probably the Mercurius, Vayeate and Virgo(s). These three all had specific abilities that matched, or outdid the Gundams, with the Mercurius' shield being about the only thing in the franchise to (successfully) nullify multiple shots from the Buster Rifle, the Vayeate flat-out having a Buster Rifle of it's own, and the Virgo merging those two technologies and then improving upon it (Virgo II). I'm probably alone here, but that seems nuts to me that this mass-produced AI-operated Mobile Doll, these grunts, had a weapon on-par with the title Gundams, and better defensive abilities than any of the Gundams. And the same applies for the Serpent in Endless Waltz; the thing was a more resilient, more well-armed, more technologically advanced version of the Heavy-Arms Custom. They literally mass-produced a Mobile Suit that was just an upgraded Gundam in every way. I respect that Gundams in Wing were a bit more strictly defined as Mobile Suits made with Gundanium (except Mercurius and Vayeate for some reason), but it still just feels weird to me that the anime went out of it's way to present the grunts as the biggest threat. The only real advantages the Gundams have over them by the end of the show are the pilots and ZERO System (in select cases). There's probably a discussion to be had about Mobile Armors, but I feel like that's still different to the notion Wing had of mass-produced dolls with the same firepower as the Wing Gundam. Anyway, not sure if there are any other Gundam fans on Top Tier, but if there are, do any of you remember any of the other animes pulling this kind of thing? Heck, do you have any random thoughts on the different Gundam animes you wanna share?
  14. MetaX set 5 revealed - is it a new IP?

    Honest to god, if they came into this card game with just the DC IP and put it forward as this big multi-IP crossover game, than someone needs to get fired. You do not, in any market, propose such a large endeavor (REGARDLESS of how much PR it may net you) without already having the mechanisms to pull it off. On a side, I've never actually touched VS System (or even heard of it prior to this forum). By chance, could I get your thoughts on how intuitive it is to play?
  15. With Dragon Ball Super finished, I've been spending a lot of time lately thinking about how good or bad it really was. What did it do for the Dragon Ball series, extended lore, video games, and merch? How has it helped/affected the anime industry, HAS it affected the industry, and how does it match-up to Z, or even GT? Now I want to preface this by saying that I don't actually have any figures. So I straight up cannot make educated (or even informed) guesses as to how it's affected the anime industry, or how well it's merch has sold. About the most I can say is that Super seemed to have attracted a fair amount of attention, with a LOT of anime-based serials focusing heavily on the series and doing articles episode by episode (which isn't too surprising for a headline Shounen anime), and quite a few streaming services paying it credit for growths in website traffic. How this has actually translated to the industry however, is beyond me. But addressing Super directly, for me, is a... Complicated feeling? Like, there's a lot of me on this forum defending certain decisions in Super. And tbh, I am okay with things like, assuming Trunks learned Galick Gun from Vegeta in the two years they spent alone together. I mean, if nothing else, I really doubt that Vegeta didn't at least TRY to improve his Galick Gun, and that's probably how we got the Final Flash in the first place. Unless he just... Winged the Final Flash against Cell. Likewise, I'm kind of... Well no, I was never okay with Super Saiyan Rage, but I could live with it. The main thing that bothered me was that it wasn't necessary. Like, if Trunks had just turned Super Saiyan 3, I would've gotten the EXACT same pay-off as with Rage, understood the transformation, and would've had none of the complaints. Actually, to be honest, I have a lot of small complaints like that. Like, why was Super Saiyan Blue necessary? Shit, why did we need Goku and Vegeta being able to turn into SSGod at will? We actually had just about the perfect "Final Form" transformation for Dragon Ball in God from a narrative standpoint. It was a transformation that didn't invalidate the past achievements and jumps in Super Saiyan because it was inconvenient. You needed a group of Saiyans, you needed to perform the ritual, and it took time to finalize the transformation. That is an excellent premise, and would've really put pressure on the heroes in certain situations such as with Goku Black. Imagine if the issue with the future timeline wasn't that Black would just magically get stronger for no real reason, but that he could access the Super Saiyan God form without the ritual (or timeline), and there weren't actually enough Saiyans in the future timeline for them to perform the ritual themselves. But putting these issues to the side, I think I was able to overall stomach most of the developments with Super (even when they actively retconned lore). Heck, I even found myself somewhat getting into it a lot of the time such as with Kaioken Blue (because fuck yeah, Kaioken), or Trunks' Final Flash (respecting that it was meaningless). But the switch for me, personally, was Mastered Ultra Instinct. When the hair went white. Holy shit did that sour my overall opinion on the show. In comparing GT and Super, I always kind of worked on the premise of GT had better ideas, but worse execution, while Super has worse ideas, but significantly better execution. And I genuinely always found that GT's execution was so bad that I just couldn't salvage anything from it. At all. The most I got was that I liked Baby up until the Strongest Form transformations. But after the reveal of the white hair... Holy shit, I actually think that Super may have been just as bad as GT. About the only positive I can give it is that I can watch certain scenes from it without any negative feelings. EXCEPT. That Dragon Ball Super was literally meaningless in regards to plot. The only thing that Battle of Gods did was introduce GoDs and angels. Frieza is dead at the start of Resurrection "F", and is dead at the end. Trunks' timeline is destroyed, and there's no fix. Until Whis magically comes up with a fix, and completely undoes any emotional impact of that entire plot-line (going on another side-rant here, this was just an objectively dumb move. Trunks saving his timeline could've been a really huge character arc in the Universe Survival Arc, where he was fighting not to save Universe 7, but to save his future. Not to mention how THAT would have affected Vegeta's motivations.) Universes are destroyed, and at the end, they're all instantly resurrected. The only difference in the world of Dragon Ball from the start of Super to the end of Super is that Frieza is alive again. Oh boy, that sure was worth 132 fucking episodes. And every single one of these arcs HAD to introduce a new transformation. Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Blue Kaioken, Rage, Evolution and Ultra Instinct, and then Mastered Ultra Instinct. It was always a meme that Dragon Ball had an issue with transformations, but oh my god, STOP. Please. None of these mean anything, and it's just... At least GT pretty much just did Super Saiyan 4. As of MUI, I actually feel that Super has only done harm to the series. Anyway, I intended this to be a kind of analysis post. I wanted to break down it's effects on the DBZ video games, and how it has helped from a business perspective, but instead I ended up having a rant. But what do you guys all think? Did anyone else have the same feeling I did of just being done with it by the time it finished? Or am I just expecting too much? I'd genuinely love to know the thoughts and feels of other long-term Dragon Ball fans when looking back on Super.
  16. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    I agree 100% that i would love to see them let go of Goku, and actually let the god damn others have some spot-light. But I'm still a bit meh on pinning it on Toriyama specifically. The dude did incapacitate Goku for 70-80% of DBZ so that we could specifically follow other characters, and it gave a lot of room for Krillin to shine as a fairly intelligent individual in the Namek Saga (and to a lesser extent in the Cell Saga). We also had some pretty amazing scenes with things like Tien holding Cell at bay at the expense of his life, and Piccolo getting huge power-ups (and overtaking the entire cast at that point). And he did build Gohan up to Ultimate. And I want to clarify, because I keep defending Toriyama lately, the dude's not infallible. He made a LOT of mistakes with DBZ, and he has paid the series shockingly little attention over time (and he is responsible for Tracksuit Gohan. I think?) But judging from how his statements and how he's handled the show, he's fully intended for other characters to take over multiple times. Gohan was MEANT to be the protagonist following Cell; his editor and Japanese fans freaked out. Vegeta was meant to be the focus of Resurrection "F," we know that others stepped in because they wanted Goku to have a more central role. Considering that all he did was provide guidelines for Super, when we line up the anime and manga side-by-side, we can see roughly what he wanted. Doing so, we can see Vegeta was MEANT to kick Goku Black's arse, Vegito is meant to appear, Vegeta loses to Hit, Zeno kills Infinite Zamasu, Gohan is intended to be incredibly important for the ToP, and so on. Actual execution, and how Goku-centric it has been, seems to fall in large-part on the animation studio and Toyotaro. So fuck it, let's hold them ALL accountable. The above said, we do need to remember that Resurrection "F" was inspired by fan song about Frieza. So, I think Toriyama's involvement is mostly just for shits and gigs at this point.
  17. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    Again, I didn't say that Gohan was just studying, it's just what's been established multiple times as being what takes up most of his time. But the Hyperbolic Time Chamber does flat-out present him the opportunity to do all these things, and still have some time for himself. And to be honest, Super's argument that Gohan has been training all this time with Piccolo in the background actually makes this a bit worse since he could very easily move what was a couple of hours of real world time into much longer stretches of time in the Chamber without issue. And straight up, he doesn't need to try and keep up with Goku and Vegeta, just maintain where he was in the Buu arcs/BoG arc. It is a lot easier to maintain strength than it is to build new strength. I think a more pressing thing here is just that the people behind Super don't really use the Hyperbolic Time-Chamber for anything other than a Vegeta-Ex-Machina. Even going back to the Buu Saga, trying to teach Goten and Trunks the Fusion Dance in hard-time straight-up caused a LOT of people to die, when they could've had YEARS longer to perfect it and pump up Gotenks. Don't get me wrong, I think having every major issue be resolved by the Time-Chamber is stupid; except that they're also kind of pulling that one |: Training for Cell: Chamber. Need to fend off Buu? Chamber. Need to beat down Goku Black? Chamber. Need to give Vegeta a power-gain for tournament time? Chamber. Toriyama and co. are very clearly aware of the chamber, and are fine with Vegeta having it, but Gohan taking like, a weekend off to train and relax with Piccolo in the real world equivalent of 5 minutes, as opposed to taking 3-4 hours off from everything in real time to do the same? Also yeah, they straight up wasted Future Trunks in a LOT of ways in Super. And honestly, Super Saiyan Rage just pissed me off, and I think that could've easily been resolved by making him go God briefly given the soft-blue hue it had within it. It genuinely could've been introduced as what happens when someone without the Ki Control for Blue is channeling God Energy into Super Saiyan. But nah, Deus-Ex-another unexplained Machina.
  18. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    I'm not even talking about tapping into God Ki though, nor am I talking about him getting stronger. I just think it's terrible that he's not maintaining shape. The fact that by the time of Frieza, he'd lost his potential unlock and couldn't even use Super Saiyan for longer than a couple of minutes. That is actually just negligent. And I understand that there is a LOT of pressure on Gohan. Studying is a bitch, and it is incredibly frustrating. But even just taking a week/s off in the chamber to beef back up after his assignments are done for term/once he's done marking assignments would do WONDERS for his form, and would probably be incredibly relieving and helpful for him from a stress management perspective. As for Future Trunks and God Ki, that's actually a really prominent thing that I never thought about. Why didn't they make him into a Super Saiyan God, and give him that starting point? Kid Trunks, Goten, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and himself, they have enough members to pump him up to the level at least to bring up his base strength, and to give him the residual God Ki needed for Blue. Whis and Beerus can't exactly do anything to stop them either, given that they bugger off for multiple hours at a time. I can accept none of the others turning Saiyan God since they don't normally have enough Saiyans (Pan is too young to be able to channel her Ki), but when Future Trunks came back in time, that stopped being an issue. Also, worthwhile side note, but the LSS blowing up after awhile WAS a thing in the original Broly movies. Or the original Z? It was how Planet Sadala was blown up, iirc.
  19. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    Honestly, I'm still yet to see anything that would suggest that GT is going to be canon after Super. I've been hearing it since before Battle of Gods, but I've never seen a source, an official statement, or anything else like that. And at this point, I'm just prone to saying that it's not going to be canon. That said, if you have an official source that proves me wrong, throw it my way dude. Dragon Ball Minus being canon feels a bit weird, but honestly, those little inconsistencies are really unsurprising with Toriyama. He CONSTANTLY forgets all the finer details, and hell, at times, he flat out forgets incredibly important details. Also, I think a large issue with Gohan isn't the Adidas track suit, but the lack of training on his part. Which is just flat-out inexcusable because they have the hyperbolic time-chamber, which means that he can literally take a week off to train/study (with text books, because I don't imagine that room has internet) as like, an evening activity in real time. This means that he could actually be a really great father, and everything his own Dad wasn't, while at least maintaining his shape. And the fact he DOESN'T is actually a really big issue, especially with how much progress he made in what must've been around 20-ish hours of straight training with Piccolo. Threats are non-stop and constant, and his getting comfortable is an active threat because Goku and Vegeta are both incredibly unreliable. That said, I don't think I've seen a single person on Top Tier defend Goku as a Father, or give him a free pass. Shit, the Dragon Ball Super manga specifically calls attention to this (with him stating that he doesn't even know when his sons were born, and Vegeta responding that he is a despicable parent). The most that can be said in his defense was that he WAS a Father to Gohan before his first death (to Raditz). After that, he NEEDED to train to combat the Saiyans (and still came up hella short of Vegeta), then Gohan went to Namek without Goku, so he gets a pass there. Then the shit with Frieza happened on Namek, and THEN we get to the first true instance of negligence on Goku's part with him refusing to return to Earth after Namek exploded. At THIS point, Goku chose to just... Be in space, not even necessarily training, instead of being there for his son. Following that, he spends the time up to the Androids training with Gohan (which can be loosely interpreted as Dad'ing), then is ill until Cell pops by, and then he spends 2 years being a Dad to Gohan in the Hyperbolic Time-Chamber. Then Cell Games, and he's dead, and he decides to stay dead? Which... I don't know if I feel comfortable making a judgement call on if that's being a bad Dad...? It probably is given the context around his death.
  20. Titans live action series

    @sh0ryu_repp4 To be honest, that 5th point of the different renditions of Teen Titans feels like kind of an aside considering that TTG took over for Teen Titans. So anyone wanting new content that fits into that middle ground is kind of just left with an old Cartoon with a large number of plotlines that never fully wrap up (THE FUCK WAS UP WITH RED X, AND WHY IS SLADE LIKE HALFWAY BACK?), or looking to very specific collections of the Silver Age comics that have roughly the same tone? Personally, I'm not going to dismiss this show out of hand. I like Flash, I enjoyed the first 2 seasons of Arrow, and I think Supergirl is fine. I respect that it's kind of separate from those, but there's a good track record of DC series doing relatively well. Probably because DC heroes fit much more into a "villain of the week" set-up than their counterparts do. As for the comment regarding Dick and Batman; I think this is just tried out now. My issue with this isn't the "Fuck Batman", but that this is being a focal point AGAIN. It feels like it's almost become Dick Greyson's origin story at this point across all the adaptations, and as a long-standing Nightwing fan, I just find it rather suffocating. I think we got Young Justice (in recent memory) that didn't hammer this home while also featuring Dick Greyson as a central focus. Maybe that Harley Quinn movie, but it was kind of a thing even there. It was a major, pivotal moment in his life, but it wasn't the defining thing that made Dick who he is as a person. And I'm about as done with it as I am done with Batman origin stories at this point. My only hope is that this isn't too central a focus with Robin, and that we get to see a bit more of Dick's character. All of the above said, this being part of a new DC streaming service pretty much promises that I won't engage with it. I don't have too many issues with the idea of streaming services, but it has started to get out of hand for me and I've not seen anything that gives me confidence or fills me with excitement.
  21. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    I'm loving the visual style, and I'm weirdly into Frieza being dragged into the mix. But I am HUGELY iffy on Broly base form being stronger than Blue. Feels like we're getting another Jiren with a Broly skin. That said; TAKING BETS NOW. FUSION OR ULTRA INSTINCT, WHAT WILL KILL BROLY?
  22. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    Dear fuck I hope not. Broly does NOT need any love interests. I'm just hoping we either get SSBlue Gogeta from this (a far-fetched idea, but fuck it, we're getting CANON BROLY, let me hope for a canon Gogeta), or that we see one of the other Saiyans play a pivotal role.
  23. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    Base Broly actually looks pretty cool there. I like the addition of Saiyan Battle Armour, and the choker. His LSS design makes me a bit... Iffy. Never has it been more apparent that BROLY NEEDS TO STOP SKIPPING LEG DAY. Honestly though, I'd probably be fine with the design if not for the tights. Which is so petty, I grant, BUT DAMNIT.
  24. Dragon Ball Super Anime Discussion

    I'll agree with your point that I think it's time to call it quits, but I don't think I'd necessarily spin this at Toriyama's detriment. I mean, the dude barely ever remembered his character designs, and went on record as having forgotten what Super Saiyan 2 was. Hence why Bulma's hair color changes every other appearance. It's also probably worth noting that this Broly won't be the one from the old movies. What that actually means beats me, and I agree that I'd rather have seen a movie with Yamoshi, or fuck, bring back Broly in a movie without Goku and Vegeta and have him 1v1 Yamoshi. I'd be somewhat down for that, and it gets us away from the stagnant air that is exuded from the two SSBlues. But as things stands, I'm actually kind of curious what Toriyama will do with Broly given that he has admitted on numerous occasions of NOT HAVING KNOWN WHO THE HELL HE IS. Makes me think they've just plopped his name on a new villain Toriyama was working on because they were scared that audiences wouldn't buy into it otherwise. Also, complete aside, but 4D had Goku fusing with the audience. That fusion at the end isn't Gogeta, it's "God Goku". The entire movie was just a terrible idea (even if I actually love the design of God Broly). The above said, I actually found Caulifla and Kale one of the saving graces of the Tournament of Power. Kefla was rather disappointing though, and just... Meh. MEH.
  25. YIBAMBE! YIBAMBE! YIBAMBE! - Set 4 SS3 Apes

    Deck seems fine. It's actually pretty similar to one I've been floating, but I dropped Flute from my own build in favor of an extra 2 Successor of Hope (to help get that turn 1 assault), and 2 Minus Kill Zone (won't have you stopping my final turn assaults). I also don't use Awakened Warrior Bardock, but I actually think it's a good move to run it.
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