Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
soviet prince

Super rare-High techs

Recommended Posts

If they were two per box they'd be the most common high techs available and be largely pointless.

DBZ has never included high techs in booster packs and there's not a single reason they should start doing it now. If they're going to introduce an additional rarity it should be subsets again, and if they want to make shiny Trunks/Ginyu cards for the fanbase, they should be alt arts promos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they were two per box they'd be the most common high techs available and be largely pointless. DBZ has never included high techs in booster packs and there's not a single reason they should start doing it now. If they're going to introduce an additional rarity it should be subsets again, and if they want to make shiny Trunks/Ginyu cards for the fanbase, they should be alt arts promos.

 

just because they did not do it before does not mean they should not start, and plenty of card games have a rarity thats 1 or 2 per box. It adds value to the box and seems prelenty rare to me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is something some games do, including the game I play UFS, where you get a promo card in a sealed box, similar to the Tough Enough cards that came in Cell Games, the only way I could see this working would be like that. You would get one random booster set personality HT in every Starter and booster box as a separate packaged promo. The only other way would be Tournament promos or the alike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Box toppers are a fantastic idea. I think that would be the proper way to distribute HTs of booster pack personalities or other cool promo cards. Stores that open boxes for sale can use them as tournament prizes/sell them, but otherwise they add a reason for people to pick up full boxes of product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Box toppers are one of the best ideas I've seen in a game. On that subject I think promos that you can't get out of packs is a horrible idea. I don't mind Ultra Rares, but 1 in 72 packs is still crazy. Yes I know the old ratio is horrible, but come on, even Magic is 1:8. I would say maybe 1:12 since deck limit is 3 and not 4 for this game, unless that's changed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want this to turn into yet another UR rarity debate, but please keep in mind that there are a lot of factors that weigh into the rarity decision the company makes, and they don't just make it arbitrarily. They need to consider keeping the rare cards hard enough to get that there is a robust secondary market for them, they need to try and make them good enough to warrant purchases from players, cool enough to warrant purchases from collectors, and yet they need to keep the prices stable enough that the barrier to competitive entry is not too high.

Magic can get away with 1:8 as the highest rarity (but remember that they have MORE mythic rares than we have ultras) because their demographic is larger. Panini is attempting to balance the rarity for their sales, and if they don't make sales, they have no game. They probably decided that 1:24 might be too common, causing the supply to be too high on the secondary market, making the price of the cards low enough that they would probably not sell as much because people would buy a box or so and then pick up singles for the rest.

I'm not saying 1:72 is right, but I think 95% of the people who discuss this think only of the customer perspective and their ability to get the cards cheaply and easily. Unfortunately, your ability to get the cards cheaply is generally against the interests of the company, and you have to remember that if the company isn't making enough of a profit, you won't even have a game to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UR is better but still not where it needs to be IMO.

I think a box topper is cool and they should do it for sure. Another thing is wrapper redemptions. Man I loved doing those back in the day, hell the first WR were Hi-Techs lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally just think 1:72 is going to put the price too high. I don't know what the correct ratio is but I don't think it should be where an UR is going to be worth more than around $40. Personally I'll buy less and play less if the cards I need to have a complete deck for competitive play are too far from reach. I think 1:24 may still be too high, but if they put a box topper I'd be satisfied. If I purchase a box I expect to get one premium card. I'm almost regretting buying the box that I preordered because I fear I won't be satisfied with my pulls or money spent. A feeling like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and potentially will make me not want to play this game. They do need to make a profit, but I think they are doing some other things right like not wasting too much on advertising, which allows room to satisfy the customer a little more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally just think 1:72 is going to put the price too high. I don't know what the correct ratio is but I don't think it should be where an UR is going to be worth more than around $40. Personally I'll buy less and play less if the cards I need to have a complete deck for competitive play are too far from reach. I think 1:24 may still be too high, but if they put a box topper I'd be satisfied. If I purchase a box I expect to get one premium card. I'm almost regretting buying the box that I preordered because I fear I won't be satisfied with my pulls or money spent. A feeling like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and potentially will make me not want to play this game. They do need to make a profit, but I think they are doing some other things right like not wasting too much on advertising, which allows room to satisfy the customer a little more.

I think having super rares that are 3 to 4 a box could help ppl get more value a box. even if they dont pull the ultra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the previous poster that cards such as this as a box topper of sorts is a great idea. I also agree that putting high techs into boosters or anything like that is silly. I remember seeing in one of the facebook groups that Aik had been quoted as saying there will be a return of the wrapper redemption. That's most likely where we'll see high techs for personalities that weren't in starters.

 

I personally just think 1:72 is going to put the price too high. I don't know what the correct ratio is but I don't think it should be where an UR is going to be worth more than around $40. Personally I'll buy less and play less if the cards I need to have a complete deck for competitive play are too far from reach. I think 1:24 may still be too high, but if they put a box topper I'd be satisfied. If I purchase a box I expect to get one premium card. I'm almost regretting buying the box that I preordered because I fear I won't be satisfied with my pulls or money spent. A feeling like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and potentially will make me not want to play this game. They do need to make a profit, but I think they are doing some other things right like not wasting too much on advertising, which allows room to satisfy the customer a little more.

 

This is the sort of Generation Y attitude that I'm sick of and that needs to stop. When you purchase something, you're owed nothing more than what you payed for. These little slips of cardboard don't have any real value, ever, except to other people that want to play with them as much as you do.

 

As I've said in previous posts, obtaining an Ultra Rare is supposed to be something special, that's what makes those cards so sought after and so rewarding to own. They're something not everyone has. Adding extra rarities, and more flashy cards makes this game too much like MTG or more specifically like YuGiOh, where you can get a whole lot of shine in a box and not be able to do anything with it. 

 

DBZ has always been a budget game, and I'd like to see it stay that way. If everything else is super cheap and easy to come by, I don't mind paying more for an Ultra Rare if I have to purchase one on the secondary market. The cheaper a game is to play, the more the local and casual levels of play will flourish, and this is what will sustain the game and give it any amount of longevity. Trying to make a game to market specifically to the competitive players and the highest tier of play will stunt your growth and alienate large portions of the player base.

 

You don't buy pieces of cardboard with some glitter on them so you have "value". You buy stocks or bars of precious metals to have value. Or real estate. 

 

In my life outside of card games, I'm a huge fan of comics and comicbook collecting. This sort of attitude, that whatever a person purchases should be worth something to someone else later, is what nearly ended the comics industry in the mid to late ninties. Too many people thought every single comic ever printed should be worth several times it's cover value in a very short amount of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. Agreed a thousand percent. You are not buying the game to get a ROI, you are buying the game because it's the DBZ CCG TCG and you want to be able to experience it again. Your money spent on product directly affects Panini's ability to produce more. The comic analogy is an excellent one and I wish it (and its implications!) were understood by more players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like any of my old cards which I still have, I know I'm never going to have the heart to sell them. They represent my love for a terrific game that brought me many fun unforgettable times with great friends. In that sense, common or UR, they are all priceless to me.

 

Except for those shitty battle simulator cards. I use those to line the bottom of my cats litter box.

 

I'm all for box toppers, sounds like a sweet bonus. Also I'm definitely looking forward to some wrapper redemptions. Those were so fun, reminded me of an even younger time sending off cereal box UPC codes to get a cool action figure (han solo in stormtrooper gear fruit loop redemption).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the previous poster that cards such as this as a box topper of sorts is a great idea. I also agree that putting high techs into boosters or anything like that is silly. I remember seeing in one of the facebook groups that Aik had been quoted as saying there will be a return of the wrapper redemption. That's most likely where we'll see high techs for personalities that weren't in starters.

 

 

This is the sort of Generation Y attitude that I'm sick of and that needs to stop. When you purchase something, you're owed nothing more than what you payed for. These little slips of cardboard don't have any real value, ever, except to other people that want to play with them as much as you do.

 

As I've said in previous posts, obtaining an Ultra Rare is supposed to be something special, that's what makes those cards so sought after and so rewarding to own. They're something not everyone has. Adding extra rarities, and more flashy cards makes this game too much like MTG or more specifically like YuGiOh, where you can get a whole lot of shine in a box and not be able to do anything with it. 

 

DBZ has always been a budget game, and I'd like to see it stay that way. If everything else is super cheap and easy to come by, I don't mind paying more for an Ultra Rare if I have to purchase one on the secondary market. The cheaper a game is to play, the more the local and casual levels of play will flourish, and this is what will sustain the game and give it any amount of longevity. Trying to make a game to market specifically to the competitive players and the highest tier of play will stunt your growth and alienate large portions of the player base.

 

You don't buy pieces of cardboard with some glitter on them so you have "value". You buy stocks or bars of precious metals to have value. Or real estate. 

 

In my life outside of card games, I'm a huge fan of comics and comicbook collecting. This sort of attitude, that whatever a person purchases should be worth something to someone else later, is what nearly ended the comics industry in the mid to late ninties. Too many people thought every single comic ever printed should be worth several times it's cover value in a very short amount of time. 

I think you missed what I was saying. I'm not saying that I'm owed anymore than what I paid for, but if I purchase a box and pull 24 rares that are worth $1.25 that doesn't even get me what I paid for. I don't know where the market in this game will be, and I don't want a ton of shiny cards. I simply think that the ratio should be around 1:24. If you want something super rare then put in something that doesn't have competitive play, like comic book collecting. Kitchen Table DBZ may have been a budget game but I don't recall competitive DBZ being a budget game. 

 

The comic analogy completely misses the mark as well. I collect those as well and when I see someone with an amazing comic I'm really excited, but if I'm playing in a tournament and someone uses a $200 card against me that I don't have the $200 protection against I'm going to be super pissed that I couldn't acquire what I needed to play in a "balanced" environment. As much as you think this mentality needs to stop there are a lot of people who want to have equal access to play competitively and let skill sort the best from the rest. From a marketing standpoint you will not have enough of a player base to support the game if we all thought that way. 

 

I apologize for beating the subject, but I'm mostly offended that you labeled me as something completely opposite of what I am not. I don't think I should spend $70 and get a ton of supers, I just believe that there should be a happy medium. I understand that there is a marketing reason for the ratio, I just think that it is still a little high and that there are pros and cons to marketing from both views. I fall somewhere between what you said and this other side you speak of that want easily obtainable supers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta say I agree with s_i.  Competitive DBZ was never a "budget" game.  The winners were the ones that spent exhorbitant amounts of money to get Ultra rares and tournament only cards that were ridiculously good.

 

I'm a casual player, never really had the money to be competitive back in the day, because I was fresh out of High School, into college, no job or anything.  On the meager budget I had, I kept a few fun decks together and picked up the promo items, but I didn't pull an ultra rare until Buu saga.  It's a crappy feeling not being able to compete in tournaments because everyone else shills out hundreds of dollars for a couple good cards.  It's called buying a win.

 

This is what Magic understands and one of the reasons it has stayed at the top of the chain for so long.  You don't have to have "Ultra rare" cards to compete, just don't make half the cards in your game utter garbage.  Balance the game over the rarities.  Commons don't have to be staple cards, but you can make them useful.  Anyone thinking "Mythic Rares" actually changed anything in Magic hadn't been paying attention.  There were always rares that were a little harder to get, a little short printed because they knew they were going to be sought after.  Giving them the "mythic" title just gave them a little bit of marketing edge and helped to stimulate the secondary market.

 

All that to say, what does 1:72 URs mean to this game?  Boxes will be 24 packs.  So for those that want to play with a card that is pretty key to decks like Trunks Energy Sphere?(said to be UR).  You will have to buy NINE boxes to MAYBE but most likely NOT get a playset.  Now, let's say you find a good deal and get boxes for 50-60 bucks.  That's about $500 to get a set of cards for your deck.  Now of course, the easiest route is trading or secondary market.  You see the useful more rare cards in games like Pokemon going for $20-30, possibly up around $40 if it's a higher rarity.  And those are still usually 1 per box or 1 per 2 boxes.  So let's assume a higher end cost for useful URs in the $30-60 range.  That's still $90-180 you are spending on ONE playset of cards.  1/20 of your deck.

 

Someone said something about worrying that this game will get like Yugioh with heavy "shinyness".  That's the least of our worries.  We're on the fence of people buying $200-300 decks to rule the tournament scene.  If they start in with the "uber good tournament winner only" cards, this game probably won't even last longer than its predecessor.  Granted it's something that is commonplace in the collectibles market nowadays, but something I'd hope to see DBZ leave in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

way to much complaining on here about the rarity of ultra rares. I don't have a single complaint and neither should anyone else who played the original score game. then it was 1-12 boxes, now it's 1-3. how can I complain about that? I was younger than most people who are complaining about how they couldn't "afford" to compete before and hell I was able to compete but I wasn't even old enough to get a job yet.... This game is not yu-gi-oh, magic or pokemon so you have no reason to compare it to those

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone thinking "Mythic Rares" actually changed anything in Magic hadn't been paying attention.  There were always rares that were a little harder to get, a little short printed because they knew they were going to be sought after.  Giving them the "mythic" title just gave them a little bit of marketing edge and helped to stimulate the secondary market.

 

good point here. I'm pretty sure a few of the cards from the original score game were harder to get than their same-rarity counterparts. I remember opening a few discount boxes from GT, and by that time the UR ratio was a lot less than 1:72...and I got ultra rares easier than a particular uncommon or rare I was looking for. 

 

beyond this, assuming that the sphere URs are going to be staples just because TES was a staple in the old game completely undermines the realization that the new game might not have as many boss events as the old game (particularly the combat stoppers come to mind among other stasis staples)...

 

  • has anybody really looked at all the events in the new game (and how many there are) before legitimately discussing the need for the UR spheres?
  • will stasis utilizing events for control be a viable archetype this early on to make the spheres useful?
  • are they worth stuffing 3 spheres to stop, and have the odds of the situations to use them popping up been considered (i.e. 1/20 chance of drawing into spheres TIMES the chance your opponent drew into an event or a card that can tutor for one TIMES the chance they use the event during an opportune moment to counter with sphere = maybe more than likely much less of a chance than packing a playset of spheres)?
  • will the spheres just be dead-weight without this consideration, will holding it for a few turns in place of a useful attack/block be worth it, and would it be more beneficial to just avoid events in a deck build to screw over the people stuffing 3 UR spheres because we might expect some naive players to do this and avoiding events wil effectively give them useless cards?
  • is it a secondary market trap for unaware players thinking they are going to get a competitive edge by stapling 3 based solely on the card library driven situations of the old game? 
  • would it not be a greater competitive edge to play with good strategy and decision making rather than assuming to rely on a staple card to be competitive?

 

these are some questions to consider, maybe, before thinking you're going to need 3 spheres to be competitive like in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×