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Majin Goo

Possible PanZ Fixes for FanZ

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Eventually, we will receive a final CRD for PanZ. FanZ devs have already made it clear that they intend to build the FanZ engine off of the final CRD, which is most likely the reason there's been a delay in set 9. My solution to correcting some of the items that will most likely remain problematic even after the final CRD is to re-balance a few choice problems through errata'd reprints in FanZ sets. For example, set 9 could release a "Promo" Orange Retribution Mastery with proper errata's to help bring it more aligned with the strength of other Mastery cards. This allows a virtual correction for a problem card that can be corrected and change as needed. Too big of a buff, loosen up a bit. Not enough, ad a bit more. This allows changes to PanZ cards without a large errata document since you just enforce a most recent print rule with the virtual version being the most recent.

Now someone will bring up copyright this and that. Pretty certain if they change the set symbol, image, wording (obviously if you're errata'ing it), and add the FanZ disclaimer it will fall under fair use. However, given the fact that Richie openly supports the idea of the format, I don't think Panini is going to come after us for making new versions of old cards. 

Now... discuss. 

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I'm all for anything that promotes the health and longevity of the game.  I don't intend to pick another game up.  If this gets snuffed out, I lose a hobby. 

Would a full rule-book re-write be needed?  I know they added a few new clauses in the recent CRD they could include.

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I find the current rule book to be clunky and drawn out. I think it could be done better and creating a new document for PanZ allows them to flesh things out while having a document that can easily be edited. Any time a ruling changes how something in the rule book works, it's better to change and update the rule book than it is to add another line to the CRD and having their own that isn't cluttered by images allows them to do this quickly without much process.  

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I mean, I think you just outlined the primary advantages of a digital card game over a hard-copy one; The ability for consistent, necessary erratas and balancing fixes.There's not a huge whole lot more to really expand upon that FanZ CAN do to effectively fix the current format, or re-balance it without a simplification of the existing rulebook.

On a personal level, just for quality of life purposes, I'd like to see a slight change in how MP and Ally cards are designed. Not a huge one, but perhaps an inclusion of a letter that corresponds with its spot on the AT Table before the actual power level number. For example, "A  0" on everyone's 0 PL. Would just make it ridiculously easier to get people into the game since you don't need to give them a chart, or spend as long explaining the combat. While this is only a "make it slightly easier (albeit a bit uglier)" for long-standing players, I actually kind of feel that making the game as accessible as possible is 100% necessary if they want to get a bigger community involved. The main issue I've found people had with ScoreZ was accessibility problems, and the biggest issue I have getting people into this game has been the same.

Beyond that, idk. Symbols that say if they can play Namekian? Not much, just a picture of Namek in the upper left corner and a picture of Vegeta (planet) to denote Saiyan. Feels a bit unnecessary, but I know it was actually an issue prevalent in ScoreZ as well after awhile so it'd probably be for the best.

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52 minutes ago, Denithan said:

I mean, I think you just outlined the primary advantages of a digital card game over a hard-copy one; The ability for consistent, necessary erratas and balancing fixes.There's not a huge whole lot more to really expand upon that FanZ CAN do to effectively fix the current format, or re-balance it without a simplification of the existing rulebook.

On a personal level, just for quality of life purposes, I'd like to see a slight change in how MP and Ally cards are designed. Not a huge one, but perhaps an inclusion of a letter that corresponds with its spot on the AT Table before the actual power level number. For example, "A  0" on everyone's 0 PL. Would just make it ridiculously easier to get people into the game since you don't need to give them a chart, or spend as long explaining the combat. While this is only a "make it slightly easier (albeit a bit uglier)" for long-standing players, I actually kind of feel that making the game as accessible as possible is 100% necessary if they want to get a bigger community involved. The main issue I've found people had with ScoreZ was accessibility problems, and the biggest issue I have getting people into this game has been the same.

Beyond that, idk. Symbols that say if they can play Namekian? Not much, just a picture of Namek in the upper left corner and a picture of Vegeta (planet) to denote Saiyan. Feels a bit unnecessary, but I know it was actually an issue prevalent in ScoreZ as well after awhile so it'd probably be for the best.

Pretty good ideas tbh.  While seeing that letter next to the power levels would indeed be ugly, would be great for new players and would save time during games for those who don't have the AT memorized.  I think the reason they haven't done that yet is because the power level flavor just feels so goooooood.

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8 minutes ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Pretty good ideas tbh.  While seeing that letter next to the power levels would indeed be ugly, would be great for new players and would save time during games for those who don't have the AT memorized.  I think the reason they haven't done that yet is because the power level flavor just feels so goooooood.

To be fair, it doesn't need to be as straight forward as "Letter Number". You could give the letters a sort of faded-out gray color so it's not intrusive, make it slightly transparent, and then give a bigger focus on the numbers. You could also do something like a similar, gray faded out circle around the letter, with the letter appearing like a stone/block on top of the circle, next to which is the power level. You can make the letters work aesthetically, if nothing else xD You can easily make it compliment the power levels, it'll just take a few tries and some dedication.

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Didnt Panini release their final CRD in mid-January?  I dont believe they've mentioned another version coming out after that one.

 

ETA: it was the one with the stupid "hidden zone" rules.  I believe they mentioned it was going to be their last act in regards to PaniniZ.

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2 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Didnt Panini release their final CRD in mid-January?  I dont believe they've mentioned another version coming out after that one.

 

ETA: it was the one with the stupid "hidden zone" rules.  I believe they mentioned it was going to be their last act in regards to PaniniZ.

They said on one of the more recent blog posts that they're going to release a Super Duper Final Final CRD: Hyper Fighting Turbo Edition in June.

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They never mentioned that the one in January was the "final" one, if I recall.  They've been threatening a final one since they released that one.  Anyway, as with others I have a few ideas:

1) Ban Unleashed.  yeah, it's become the topic of back and forth between "it ruins the game" and "just gid gud".  The fact of the matter is that it ruins design space.  There are plenty of other ways to jump levels, people never had a problem with it before.  Having a card that can allow you to max out to level 4 while potentially dropping your opponent to level one is a something that should have NEVER happened.  BAU is not effective, one per deck MIGHT be effective, but taking it out of the equation completely needs to happen to open up space to design better cards.

2) Rewrite/rerelease frozen masteries.  Don't just say "unfreeze and errata".  The game is open now.  Just redesign the remaining frozen masteries from the ground up and release them as new cards with new titles in a future set.

3) don't be afraid to errata/ban.  A huge problem with PanZ was their complete aversion to fixing their mistakes.  Yes, make sure playtesting is thorough and complete.  But if a problem arises, don't wait half a year to fix it.

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I haven't played or looked at the cards for a few months, (buying house, moving, getting a puppy, etc.) but it's good to see some things never change, like we're still waiting for someone to get smart and just ban Unleashed.

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1 hour ago, cytorak said:

They said on one of the more recent blog posts that they're going to release a Super Duper Final Final CRD: Hyper Fighting Turbo Edition in June.

Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series

... and Knuckles

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At this point, banning Unleased takes away a reason to not play Retribution. They have a near limitless power in FanZ to bring the ultimate balance but the good old days seems to have them by the balls. 

I would fix Blue Terror. It was banned because of Goku. The problem is, Goku is the problem, not Blue Terror. I would change it just enough to fix that combo while maintaining the intent of the card. This way, we keep our only good Goku stack (still needs nerfs but a style only nerf would not fix the Blue Terror problem).

Blue Terror

(After this card resolves, for the remainder of the game, you cannot play or use cards named Blue Terror.)

... rest of Blue Terror...

A simple, easy to understand fix. The card remains in the game, and cannot be juggled. It remains functional and keeps its intent which was to be a one-time search.

Now for my thoughts on Stryyder's idea.

Red Phasing Mastery

(If you advance or lower a level with this cards "POWER" you cannot win by MPPV. This cards "POWER" can only be used once per game.)

Continous: Whenever one of your style attacks deals 5 or more life cards of damage, raise your anger 1. When you advance a level, draw a card and then discard a card. When you lower a level, draw a card. 

Power: Banish 5 styled cards with different names to advance or lower you MP by 1 level.

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Of course, the Mastery I created revolves around getting rid of Unleashed so that Goku isn't more broken by its existence. If it proved too powerful I already have the nerf on hand. Add to the parenthetical "If you advanced or lowered a level with this card's "POWER" this turn, you can only use your MP's CONTINOUS effects."

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2 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

I'm unclear, why are people not playing Retribution? I thought it was considered the best mastery?

People are playing retribution. He was saying unleashed gives another option for people who want to level. He's worried without unleashed even more people would flock to retribution. I don't know if I believe that, but he does make a good point. 

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32 minutes ago, v3rse said:

People are playing retribution. He was saying unleashed gives another option for people who want to level. He's worried without unleashed even more people would flock to retribution. I don't know if I believe that, but he does make a good point. 

 

Ahhh I see what you (and he) mean!

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I still think unleashed needs the de-level clause removed. A final nerf before straight out banning it. I'm all for balance and if unleashed still proves to be too powerful even after that fix then yes it should go.

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My idea for Unleashed

Unleashed - Event

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game.)

POWER: If there are no cards attached to your MP search your Life Deck for a card that can Attach to your MP and Attach it to your MP. You may banish any number of cards Attached to your MP. If you do, advance your MP X levels where X equals the number of Attached cards banished by this cards effect. If your opponent cannot win by MPPV, you may lower your MP to a lower MP level. If you do, lower your opponent's MP to the same level. 

(Banish after use.)

There's a rough idea for a fix I thought of. Probably could use some work. 

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Honestly, a bigger fan of erratas over straight  banning, especially in a game that can evolve as rapidly as FanZ has the capacity to do.

Banning feels like an easy answer that just says "I don't wanna deal with that," which is fine, but really not what we should be encouraging in FanZ. Really, it should be a placeholder until we find a more permanent fix as opposed to just acting like certain cards don't exist.

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3 minutes ago, Denithan said:

Honestly, a bigger fan of erratas over straight  banning, especially in a game that can evolve as rapidly as FanZ has the capacity to do.

Banning feels like an easy answer that just says "I don't wanna deal with that," which is fine, but really not what we should be encouraging in FanZ. Really, it should be a placeholder until we find a more permanent fix as opposed to just acting like certain cards don't exist.

There is also a certain point where you have to accept a design is toxic to game development and enjoyment of the game.

In theory, I agree with you, in practice, it's not always something one can do while keeping the original intention of the card.

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17 minutes ago, Artificial Human said:

There is also a certain point where you have to accept a design is toxic to game development and enjoyment of the game.

In theory, I agree with you, in practice, it's not always something one can do while keeping the original intention of the card.

 

I'll agree with this within reason, but that still makes banning seem like a temporary measure or last resort for after all the erratas have failed to fix things (/make Unleashed unplayable). So far as I know, this thing hasn't ever received an errata, and there could be a pretty simple parenthetical solution. For example, would it be acceptable if it was power level restricted, or if it straight killed non-constant effects of a personality permanently?

And now I'm just actually curious. To what degree of a negative would you feel needs to be placed there before the card becomes just another tech as opposed to a staple in non-MPPV?

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