Majin Goo

Possible PanZ Fixes for FanZ

41 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Denithan said:

 

I'll agree with this within reason, but that still makes banning seem like a temporary measure or last resort for after all the erratas have failed to fix things (/make Unleashed unplayable). So far as I know, this thing hasn't ever received an errata, and there could be a pretty simple parenthetical solution. For example, would it be acceptable if it was power level restricted, or if it straight killed non-constant effects of a personality permanently?

And now I'm just actually curious. To what degree of a negative would you feel needs to be placed there before the card becomes just another tech as opposed to a staple in non-MPPV?

Banish after use is an official errata for Unleashed.

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4 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

Banish after use is an official errata for Unleashed.

Ah crap, I actually didn't know that. Fair dues.

REALLY not enough of an errata. But fair, it counts.

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53 minutes ago, Denithan said:

Ah crap, I actually didn't know that. Fair dues.

REALLY not enough of an errata. But fair, it counts.

It's honestly nothing more than one last attempt at insulting the customer bases intelligence. We'll see what the final CRD does. Hopefully, it includes all of the wiki and blog clarifications. Otherwise, that shit will eventually be lost to time. 

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That reminds me. Before f***ing fixing anything else. They need to go over and undo their bullshit because we f**ked up and need to change the laws of language to fix it. My first example. Bulma Ally. The ruling stating that cards attached to her are not considered in play is counter productive to the ruling that cards attached are considered in play. I understand they did it because of Acquisition Drill. Seriously though. How broken can it be given that most decks don't run Bulma and it's rare you would attach a drill to her given the number of greater threats in most decks. Want to chase players away... make rulings that contradict each other and enforce them both at the same time. Next fix, Beerus Ally. I understand the reason behind the ruling. However, the ruling goes against both the text on the cards in question and the rules of the game. Instead... freaking errata him so that it works within already existing parameters. I swear. Panini devs were on jenkem when they were making some of the rulings and cards. 

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56 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

That reminds me. Before f***ing fixing anything else. They need to go over and undo their bullshit because we f**ked up and need to change the laws of language to fix it. My first example. Bulma Ally. The ruling stating that cards attached to her are not considered in play is counter productive to the ruling that cards attached are considered in play. I understand they did it because of Acquisition Drill. Seriously though. How broken can it be given that most decks don't run Bulma and it's rare you would attach a drill to her given the number of greater threats in most decks. Want to chase players away... make rulings that contradict each other and enforce them both at the same time. Next fix, Beerus Ally. I understand the reason behind the ruling. However, the ruling goes against both the text on the cards in question and the rules of the game. Instead... freaking errata him so that it works within already existing parameters. I swear. Panini devs were on jenkem when they were making some of the rulings and cards. 

So, with this in mind, we've totaled up to:

- Readdress and simplify the rulebook

- Change wording of older cards to make it consistent with the current format(?)

- Address the current state of the meta and problem cards. Errata/Ban problems cards as needed.

- Establish less complex rulings/correct problem rulings

- Develop a more open channel for communication with community to determine what the aforementioned problems are.

 

And then I still think a quality of life thing would just be to include letters before power levels that state its place on the AT table to make it a bit more accessible to newcomers.

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9 hours ago, Denithan said:

 

I'll agree with this within reason, but that still makes banning seem like a temporary measure or last resort for after all the erratas have failed to fix things (/make Unleashed unplayable). So far as I know, this thing hasn't ever received an errata, and there could be a pretty simple parenthetical solution. For example, would it be acceptable if it was power level restricted, or if it straight killed non-constant effects of a personality permanently?

And now I'm just actually curious. To what degree of a negative would you feel needs to be placed there before the card becomes just another tech as opposed to a staple in non-MPPV?

See, I don't like unleashed. I don't think anything that more or less can read 'advance to 4. Lower your opponent to 1 if they're using autolevel cards.' is inherently a healthy design. It's both too fast/strong and a massive feel bads in one package.

But, if I were to be making something along the same lines, I'd base it off Kaioken, make you card destroy the top 3 of your deck per level gained, let the opponent shuffle 3 from discard into life per level you lower them. 

 

But I don't think that design space is there thanks to Kaioken

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21 hours ago, Majin Goo said:

My idea for Unleashed

Unleashed - Event

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game.)

POWER: If there are no cards attached to your MP search your Life Deck for a card that can Attach to your MP and Attach it to your MP. You may banish any number of cards Attached to your MP. If you do, advance your MP X levels where X equals the number of Attached cards banished by this cards effect. If your opponent cannot win by MPPV, you may lower your MP to a lower MP level. If you do, lower your opponent's MP to the same level. 

(Banish after use.)

There's a rough idea for a fix I thought of. Probably could use some work. 

I've actually never thought about this and I honestly like it much more. It could still be nasty forcing your non mppv opponent to stay at an undesirable level but would also force the unleashed player to keep the same pace as their opponent instead of the massive tempo play they have now.  I play resolute Goku while my friend plays restored cell and usually when I unleash to 4 and knock him to one, I win. If it read like that, I would still play unleashed because cells level 3&4 are strong af (especially 3) but I won't have the overwhelming power [ ;) ] of constantly searching out answers every combat when I'm already ahead.

i like this. FanZ, do this. 

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On 19/05/2017 at 9:27 AM, Majin Goo said:

My idea for Unleashed

Unleashed - Event

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game.)

POWER: If there are no cards attached to your MP search your Life Deck for a card that can Attach to your MP and Attach it to your MP. You may banish any number of cards Attached to your MP. If you do, advance your MP X levels where X equals the number of Attached cards banished by this cards effect. If your opponent cannot win by MPPV, you may lower your MP to a lower MP level. If you do, lower your opponent's MP to the same level. 

(Banish after use.)

There's a rough idea for a fix I thought of. Probably could use some work. 

I've been ruminating on this for awhile, and a thought kind of hit me. What if you split these ideas into two separate cards?
And I don't mean Majin Goo's specific example. But the biggest issue with Unleashed is how it lets you demote your opponent a couple of levels and gain a huge, swinging advantage. So what if we just removed that part of Unleashed, keep the rest of Goo's idea, and then give the deleveling to another card ("Restrained", for example)?

Maintain the same cost of banishing all your attached cards, but make it so Restrained operates by lowering your own level by however many Banished attached cards, and then your opponent loses the same levels. So you invert Unleashed entirely, but add on that your opponent gets dragged to the same level as you?

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On 5/19/2017 at 1:27 AM, Majin Goo said:

My idea for Unleashed

Unleashed - Event

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game.)

POWER: If there are no cards attached to your MP search your Life Deck for a card that can Attach to your MP and Attach it to your MP. You may banish any number of cards Attached to your MP. If you do, advance your MP X levels where X equals the number of Attached cards banished by this cards effect. If your opponent cannot win by MPPV, you may lower your MP to a lower MP level. If you do, lower your opponent's MP to the same level. 

(Banish after use.)

There's a rough idea for a fix I thought of. Probably could use some work. 

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game. If your opponent can win by MPPV, you cannot lower your opponents MP with this card's effect).

Power: Search your Life Deck for a card that can attach to your MP and place it in play attached. You may banish an attached card attached to your MP. If you do, advance or lower an MP 1 level. 

(Banish after use.)

 

So roughly the same idea, I guess your version allows some cooler level hop opportunities, but mine is just kinda less confusing. Basically you can either level up or level down one MP that can't win by MPPV. However, with my version you could level up an enemy that likes to camp at lv1, which seems like a fair perk given how nerfed this version is. 

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10 hours ago, Jaith1 said:

(Limit 2 per deck. If you advance a level with this cards effect, you cannot win by MPPV for the remainder of the game. If your opponent can win by MPPV, you cannot lower your opponents MP with this card's effect).

Power: Search your Life Deck for a card that can attach to your MP and place it in play attached. You may banish an attached card attached to your MP. If you do, advance or lower an MP 1 level. 

(Banish after use.)

 

So roughly the same idea, I guess your version allows some cooler level hop opportunities, but mine is just kinda less confusing. Basically you can either level up or level down one MP that can't win by MPPV. However, with my version you could level up an enemy that likes to camp at lv1, which seems like a fair perk given how nerfed this version is. 

I like it. As I said earlier, something to level you up without benefiting your opponent or having to sacrifice a whole lot that can fit in most any deck is needed to compete with MPPV without being another MPPV. People complain about Orange Retribution but don't think about a world without Blue and Red Goku's to stand against it. Your idea is probably the most balanced. 

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1 hour ago, Majin Goo said:

I like it. As I said earlier, something to level you up without benefiting your opponent or having to sacrifice a whole lot that can fit in most any deck is needed to compete with MPPV without being another MPPV. People complain about Orange Retribution but don't think about a world without Blue and Red Goku's to stand against it. Your idea is probably the most balanced. 

Well let's just freeze Retribution on top of this unleashed nerf and see how the power vacuum fills up. Adept and Adaptive are both perfectly playable so Orange would be fine.

I am not sure how to actually fix Retribution but slapping a 2-anger action onto a mastery without any downsides is annoying. It just does way too much compared to other masteries. Maybe it should require destroying a drill to raise anger? Maybe we replace the 2 anger clause with something like: "For the remainder of combat, whenever one of your styled drills would leave play due to one of your card effects, you may raise your anger 1 level" That could be fun maybe (makes bicycle kick broken af though...)

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50 minutes ago, Jaith1 said:

Well let's just freeze Retribution on top of this unleashed nerf and see how the power vacuum fills up. Adept and Adaptive are both perfectly playable so Orange would be fine.

I am not sure how to actually fix Retribution but slapping a 2-anger action onto a mastery without any downsides is annoying. It just does way too much compared to other masteries. Maybe it should require destroying a drill to raise anger? Maybe we replace the 2 anger clause with something like: "For the remainder of combat, whenever one of your styled drills would leave play due to one of your card effects, you may raise your anger 1 level" That could be fun maybe (makes bicycle kick broken af though...)

The only thing you need to do to fix Orange Retribution is remove the +2 Anger. 

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31 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

The only thing you need to do to fix Orange Retribution is remove the +2 Anger. 

It would be unplayable without any anger gain. You could maybe lower the anger to 1 though. My favorite idea for adjusting retribution mastery though is just adding "you can't win by mppv" onto it. Though that may need to be paired with an unleashed errata/ban to be balanced. Unless you want to get cute and say "if your mp is lv 4 you can't win by mppv."

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37 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

The only thing you need to do to fix Orange Retribution is remove the +2 Anger. 

Orange Retribution needs to be split in two. It's doing too much and just removing the anger clause makes the rest of the card non-sense.

Orange Retribution Mastery
(At the start of your opponent's first turn, search your Life Deck for a Styled non-CONSTANT Drill and place it into play.)
CONSTANT: Whenever your MP changes levels, you may shuffle all Drills you control into their owner's Life Deck.
POWER: The next Styled attack you perform this combat has its power stage cost reduced to 0.

Orange Retribution Blast
Energy Attack costing 2 Stages
Raise your anger up to 2 levels. If your MP has changed levels this combat, search your Life Deck for a Styled Drill and place it into play.
4 Life Cards

The second ability is fine, it just needs it as it's own thing.

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2 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

Orange Retribution needs to be split in two. It's doing too much and just removing the anger clause makes the rest of the card non-sense.

Orange Retribution Mastery
(At the start of your opponent's first turn, search your Life Deck for a Styled non-CONSTANT Drill and place it into play.)
CONSTANT: Whenever your MP changes levels, you may shuffle all Drills you control into their owner's Life Deck.
POWER: The next Styled attack you perform this combat has its power stage cost reduced to 0.

Orange Retribution Blast
Energy Attack costing 2 Stages
Raise your anger up to 2 levels. If your MP has changed levels this combat, search your Life Deck for a Styled Drill and place it into play.
4 Life Cards

The second ability is fine, it just needs it as it's own thing.

Honestly, I kind of like this. And I kind of dig the idea of breaking down the most overpowered cards into its core elements and seeing if they would operate in a similar manner if split into two cards.

As it stands, Orange Retribution Blast would be a staple in all Orange decks, but at the god damn least it's a lot less consistent and more balanced than the Mastery is atm.

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