Jaith1

New FanZ Villian Vegeta lv1

51 posts in this topic

https://fanztcg.wordpress.com/2017/05/27/have-you-tried-villain-vegeta/

A new villain Vegeta lv1 is out, however the wording seems a bit dumb since HIT effects take place after damage is dealt. This HIT effect should actually just be a secondary effect if it's not gonna be completely useless. Seems really silly that they could make such an amateur mistake imo.

So the next question is would Villian Vegeta actually be viable with an improved level 1? My guess is no, Broly became what Villian Vegeta tried to be and I just don't see that changing. 

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2 hours ago, Jaith1 said:

So the next question is would Villian Vegeta actually be viable with an improved level 1? My guess is no, Broly became what Villian Vegeta tried to be and I just don't see that changing. 

I mean, no one is really viable with that new Gohan they made.  

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5 hours ago, Jaith1 said:

So the next question is would Villian Vegeta actually be viable with an improved level 1? My guess is no, Broly became what Villian Vegeta tried to be and I just don't see that changing. 

I don't see it happening.
Since we're only adding the new Level 1 to the previous stack, I don't know how strong this Level 1 actually IS. The FanZ group seem confident in it, but it's focus on giving "non-anger printed cards" anger gain doesn't really gel that well with what the rest of what Villain Vegeta's stack pushes. While it may buff it up in Saiyan Empowered and Saiyan Rampaging (I think, was never 100% sure on that ruling), you're kind of pushing in opposite directions in the other styles (admittedly, getting Anger raising in Red is nice, but you're kind of gearing up to leave Level 1 ASAP).

But eh, who knows? Maybe I've completely missed something here. Or maybe it really is just intended to be Saiyan, and my point is irrelevant. Even then, the 4 stage poke for a Crit is kind of nice, and this is an alpha of the card.

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3 hours ago, ChangelingBard said:

I mean, no one is really viable with that new Gohan they made.  

I mean, I don't know how much you've played lately, but future gohan is tier 1.5 at best and hardly very prevalent. 

 

Anyway here were my thoughts on the new Vegeta from the news post:

 

I like this, but it really only makes him useful in saiyan style. Since the rest of his stack relies on attacks that gains anger you'll need to play a lot of those. And those won't give you additional anger from his constant effect so the only real answer is to utilize an effect that adds anger gain as an immediate effect to attacks without printed anger. Which basically means saiyan empowered mastery or Orange disaster drill. Orange disaster drill is more difficult to keep in play and you still wouldn't get the benefit from some of oranges best physical attacks (knee strike, collision, etc.). So that really just leaves empowered mastery which was always villain vegetas best mastery anyway, but if you're going going to give him a new level I don't know why you would be so narrow. In my opinion the constant should just add raise your anger 1 to all your styled attacks. That would open up a lot more options, let him threaten mppv, and not make gallic gun and final flash OP.

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8 minutes ago, v3rse said:

 In my opinion the constant should just add raise your anger 1 to all your styled attacks. That would open up a lot more options, let him threaten mppv, and not make gallic gun and final flash OP.

THAT would make this new Level 1 an actual, marked improvement on his old one tbh. As it currently stands, I might actually lean towards just playing his original Level 1, and either going Red (so I can keep dropping back down to his level 3), or at least going Rampaging Mastery so that I can try for the MPPV win over an Empowered Broly who is otherwise better in every way.

Honestly, I don't think Vegeta's level 1 was the problem with his Villain stack. I think it's his level 2 and 4. His level 1 is basically not going to be around after your first combat since you're playing so many cards with Immediate Anger gain, especially in Saiyan or Red. Then you hit his Level 2, and you slow down a lot to trying to get his power off before you do anything else (while it's not a BAD attack, it's still a pain to have to do it at the start of a combat instead of having options), then his Level 3 hits like a freight train for all of a minute because of your anger gain, and his Level 4 is just... There.
Doing its thing.
Which isn't much of anything.

FanZ, why the hell are we redoing his Level 1? |:

Afterthought: Ig Saiyan Rampaging Mastery, but uh, that... Doesn't work WELL with the Level 1 either. For obvious reasons.

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Listen guys, I like Villain Vegeta, a lot. The art, themes, everything, but this has to be the most pointless shit since Fan Z 18 lv2.

It forces him off 1. Big fucking deal. It's not like 2, 3 or 4 are amazing these days.

I'm late to the party, you've all said it, but Broly supersedes all these physical beats villain Saiyans.

The only real use I can think of is the Anger as a Cost theme seeing as he can run whatever he likes and still get Anger. Level 1 Red Camp.

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32 minutes ago, Artificial Human said:

Listen guys, I like Villain Vegeta, a lot. The art, themes, everything, but this has to be the most pointless shit since Fan Z 18 lv2.

It forces him off 1. Big fucking deal. It's not like 2, 3 or 4 are amazing these days.

I'm late to the party, you've all said it, but Broly supersedes all these physical beats villain Saiyans.

The only real use I can think of is the Anger as a Cost theme seeing as he can run whatever he likes and still get Anger. Level 1 Red Camp.

Only problem with the anger as a resource, is it doesn't give you anger to your non-anger gaining attacks. It gives them to the attacks that don't reference anger at all. So the cards that want you to lower your anger (Or your opponents) still wouldn't get the effect. 

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54 minutes ago, Amanax said:

Only problem with the anger as a resource, is it doesn't give you anger to your non-anger gaining attacks. It gives them to the attacks that don't reference anger at all. So the cards that want you to lower your anger (Or your opponents) still wouldn't get the effect. 

In other words, there's little to no point to this support xD

Honestly, I'm all for bringing glory to Villain Vegeta, but this isn't how. Probably the easiest, and best way, is to give him a new level 4 who literally just does what his level 3 does. Doesn't even need to be better. Just give us a constant buff to anger beat that we can sit on in Empowered, and he'll have a niche to himself.

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Just straight life card damage, honestly. About the only thing his buff offers over them.

I'm not saying it's a good niche, or even a necessary one. But hell, it IS a niche. As it currently stands, he doesn't even have that.
(also, I think the reality is that unless we give him some ungodly powerful Level 2 AND 4, he's not going to be a smart choice over Broly/Nappa)

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5 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

Shouldn't have bothered till Majin Vegeta.

This is kind of my thought as well. The only way this new Vegeta does anything is if Majin Vegeta's level 2 is good enough to rush, and his level 1 doesn't give anger. Right now though, this level 1 literally does nothing for Vegeta other than make him play only Saiyan style, and even then he's not a strong enough stack to matter since that level 2 is almost as bad as his old level 1 in my experience.

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I was really hoping they would wait until Majin Vegeta to fix the villain stack. It's a nice homage to the stack but it could be done better and seems like a waste of design space for a stack that otherwise won't compare. Frieza was an easy argument for a new level 1. He has a good stack otherwise. Not an S Tier stack but a good, fun stack. All he needed was a level 1. Fixing villain Vegeta will require a new stack. All you can accomplish with a new level one is to create a good camp level. 

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I've never understood why people think his Level 1 is bad. You can get off level one and unlike old Frieza 1, it doesn't require your opponent do something to you. It's not a good level but it's not the worst level either. Now, his level 2 on the other hand, is terrible. 

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24 minutes ago, Hellsfire said:

I've never understood why people think his Level 1 is bad. You can get off level one and unlike old Frieza 1, it doesn't require your opponent do something to you. It's not a good level but it's not the worst level either. Now, his level 2 on the other hand, is terrible. 

I think just the unreliability of it being a HIT effect.

Also I would have preferred to see a new Level 2, honestly. There's no reason the effect couldn't have been immediate and was only +1 & +1.

Pretty lame, too, that they just copied text from Saiyan Dynamic on this new level 1.

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3 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

I think just the unreliability of it being a HIT effect.

Also I would have preferred to see a new Level 2, honestly. There's no reason the effect couldn't have been immediate and was only +1 & +1.

Pretty lame, too, that they just copied text from Saiyan Dynamic on this new level 1.

Honestly, a Level 2 would've done a better job of adding a bit more speed and power to the stack. At the same time though, I think we just needed a new Villain Vegeta stack entirely (although, would be pretty fun to have a Chibi Vegeta stack of when he was a kid).

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A new level 2 would have also given Dynamic what it cries for, a Saiyan worth camping on 2.

Dynamic is a great Mastery, it just doesn't have a great partner.

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3 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

A new level 2 would have also given Dynamic what it cries for, a Saiyan worth camping on 2.

Dynamic is a great Mastery, it just doesn't have a great partner.

Gohan isn't a bad camp. Not great but fun. 

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Camping on 2 with Gohan is good and maybe Broly just to make you that much closer to 4. I think the biggest problem with dynamic still is the 6 anger gain.

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44 minutes ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

Camping on 2 with Gohan is good and maybe Broly just to make you that much closer to 4. I think the biggest problem with dynamic still is the 6 anger gain.

The big issue with Dynamic isn't necessarily the 6 anger gain, but probably more the lack of a decent effect besides starting on 2. Comparing it to other Masteries, Dynamic just doesn't have the same oomph and isn't really that helpful once the match really heats up.

Even when you compare it to the other Saiyan Masteries, it's a little on the weaker side. Empowered gives you better access to anger gain, but with the addition of constantly gaining stages, and Rampaging allows you to rapidly hurdle towards MPPV while giving you the ability to turn high endurance Events and Blocks into decent attacks when you draw dead hands and giving you similar access to anger gain. Meanwhile, Dynamic actively encourages a camping playstyle while giving you anger gain and nothing else. Take away the anger gain skill, and give it a decent effect to support your camping (such as some kind of damage modifier, or something to give you stronger endurance, or to stop you from being deleveled) while keeping the 6 anger to level up, and you have an all around stronger Mastery imo.

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Dynamic is designed for unleashed decks without a doubt. All it needed was an ability to convert endurance from cards into stages for your MP then it would have been thematic and competitive. 

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