Jump to content
manoftomorrow010

General Deck-building philosophy

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to start this thread to get anyone's thoughts on how they're approaching basic deck-building for this game. I haven't played a game similar to this, where your cards double as energy, etc. So in thinking about building my decks for the eventual release, it's difficult to determine things like how many different cards to include, how many copies of cards and other things.

I thought everyone could share their ideas or thoughts here, so we don't derail the previews thread, or have everything contained there.

Since I already have 1 deck idea being fleshed out, here are the questions I'm having:

1) Is it better to include fewer cards (by title) and have them all be 3-4x copies of them, or diversify the cards to include many at 2x to cover as energy without using your more expensive cards for energy?

2) How valuable are base cards like Kind Saiyan Son Goku, which cost only 1 Energy to play? Would you simply reserve some spots (how many copies?) to use these basic cards as energy?

3) What's the ratio of Extra to Battle cards you're anticipating? My current deck idea only has 15 total Extra cards, for example. I have no idea if this would be a disaster, or beneficial.

 

It seems you'd rarely get down to the lower-half of your deck, and without shuffling mechanics, you could wind up never seeing half your deck, so this also poses some challenges about including many different cards, as opposed to more copies of fewer individual cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you only need playsets of cards that are ABSOLUTE essentials. Something the deck just doesnt work without, or runs FAR less efficiently without. i have a feeling more cards will be 3 ofs than 4 ofs.

it will need some play testing but I think you can get away with having your lowest mana curve be 2 costs. meaning, the lowest costing cards in your deck can be 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're probably right, unless you're including extra cards that cost 1, battle cards that cost 1 aren't very valuable. I'm okay using a 2 cost card as energy, and including some of basic battle cards will dilute your deck from the cards you need to get.

In what I'm working on already, the average energy cost is like 2.75.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far, I'm using only 13 cards total that cost more than 3 Energy. Five cards cost 4; four cards cost 5; and four cards cost 6.

But I haven't adjusted that based on potentially taking out cards like Kind Saiyan Son Goku. It sounds better on paper to have more copies of stuff like Raging Attacker Vegeta, God Charge Vegeta, and such than that Son Goku.

 

But, this brings up the Evolve mechanic. I included a few copies for KS Son Goku to either 1) be an easy Energy play without much downside; and/or 2) Evolve it into Overflowing Spirit SSGSS Son Goku.

However, Overflowing Spirit Son Goku costs 4, and only 2 Blue energy, so it's not as cost-prohibitive as God Charge Vegeta. So I don't actually think I'd need the Evolve mechanic at all there. Especially since Kind Saiyan Son Goku is going to be very easy to KO.

I'm just not convinced at this point that Evolve is going to be worth it. At least the 3-cost basic Vegeta has higher power (20,000) and can evolve into something really good like Vegeta, Prince of Speed or God Charge Vegeta. I have 3 copies of that basic Vegeta with that plan in mind, evolve him into God Charge or Prince of Speed at the right time. I'm at least much more confident he can stay in play, since it would require an Awakened leader, or a  combo to KO him most of the time, in which case I could decide to combo myself to keep him in-play if it's really needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll probably start with the old MtG formula. Put 4 of of cards I need to see turn 1, 2 at the latest. 3 of for cards that I need around turn 3. 2 of for cards that I will need early mid-game but generally don't want to see in my hand turn 1 or 2. 

I'm not a big fan of 1 of cards. Generally, these will be late game oh shit buttons designed to turn the tides. 

From there I'll make adjustments based on how the serious play testing goes. 

Generally for me, regardless of the game, there are only ever two types of cards. Core and Support. Core cards being cards that push your win condition and will normally be played despite your opponent. Support cards being cards that respond to your opponent by supporting your win condition or inhibiting theirs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good idea, Goo.

I did this, basically, with the deck I'm working on. I have about 4-5 cards I consider the heart of the deck. So they're at 4 copies, and I eliminated the basic cards, since using a 2 energy cost card for energy to play one of my core cards is worth it, as opposed to having basic, cheap things to dilute the deck.

But the way you put it is a solid way to go about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

That's a good idea, Goo.

I did this, basically, with the deck I'm working on. I have about 4-5 cards I consider the heart of the deck. So they're at 4 copies, and I eliminated the basic cards, since using a 2 energy cost card for energy to play one of my core cards is worth it, as opposed to having basic, cheap things to dilute the deck.

But the way you put it is a solid way to go about it.

It was the first thing I learned 15 years ago that helped me break into decent deck building for MtG. I got caught up on distribution of card types. Never at a young age would I have thought that decks without creatures or only handful could win. Fortunately, I eventually feel into a local scene where the older players didn't mind actually teaching people how to win. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2017 at 1:56 AM, Majin Goo said:

It was the first thing I learned 15 years ago that helped me break into decent deck building for MtG. I got caught up on distribution of card types. Never at a young age would I have thought that decks without creatures or only handful could win. Fortunately, I eventually feel into a local scene where the older players didn't mind actually teaching people how to win. 

I did this same thing years ago too. I thought you needed an even amount of everything. Funny how kids think that way huh?

But @Majin Goo could you go over your description again? I didn't quite understand what you meant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

I did this same thing years ago too. I thought you needed an even amount of everything. Funny how kids think that way huh?

But @Majin Goo could you go over your description again? I didn't quite understand what you meant.

Cards either do one of two things or both. They push your win condition and/or support you by responding to your opponent. It's less overwhelming if you break cards down into these categories when building decks. So much easier to balance out Core and Support cards than it is to balance out the 5-10 types of cards some games have. Of course with BanZ there really is only two types (outside of leaders) so it probably won't be as difficult breaking down the use of cards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I meant your description of:

On 6/23/2017 at 8:47 PM, Majin Goo said:

4 of of cards I need to see turn 1, 2 at the latest. 3 of for cards that I need around turn 3. 2 of for cards that I will need early mid-game but generally don't want to see in my hand turn 1 or 2. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my deck I'm working on, I only have 4 copies of about 4-5 cards. These are the ones that are crucial to what I designed the deck around, and would need them in my hand at the start of the game. I'll always mulligan to hopefully get at least one of those cards.

Cards that I have 3 copies of are generally the ones that offer strong support to those initial 4-5 cards that are the core of my strategy. Also, things that respond to the opponent, like Blocker, or Counter cards.

I have several cards at 2 copies and those are cards with minimal impact, but would be nice to draw mid to late game, or use as energy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

No, I meant your description of:

 

Essentially, you try to use probability to determine how likely you are to have a card by a certain turn and on which turn you want to try and guarantee it. For example:

A card at 4 has a about a 41% chance of being in your starting hand. After your life is set aside, if none were put into the life and you did not draw one in your starting hand you now have about an 11% chance of drawing it at the beginning of your turn. So if it's a card I NEED and at the early stages of the game it gets put into a 4 of category. If it's a card that's situational or late game it can sit at one or two so as not to clog my hand early game risking me putting it down as energy and then needing it later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×