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Majin Goo

New FanZ CRD...

49 posts in this topic

... and they added drill memory. Sloppily might I add.
 

https://fanztcg.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/summer-crd-update/

"Rules Changes
These changes are effective immediately in all official FanZ events (Open & Eternal Formats).  They are recommended in any unofficial FanZ events as well, but ultimately up to the discretion of the Tournament Organizer.
Drills now have ‘memory’ – Powers of Drills can only be used once per turn, regardless of them leaving play and re-entering play.  Styled Drills may not be used again even if another copy of the card enters play in place of a copy that has already been used.  
Example:
Player A uses “Orange Possession Drill”
Player B destroys “Orange Possession Drill” with a card effect
Player A uses an effect to search his Life Deck for another copy of “Orange Possession Drill”
Player B passes their action
Player A cannot use the POWER of the new “Orange Possession Drill”, since that drill was already used this combat."

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Drill memory was probably needed for quite some time and has been discussed many times. Even if you're against it, you have to admit this allows for more creative design in the future?

 

Maybe it's just me... Who sees that as an upside *shrug*

 

Glad to see BAU added to Bicycle kick and Meditation. Checkup drill to 1 seems kind of meh with drill memory now added but sure, go to town.

 

I am also surprised that they released this now instead of waiting for the official one and then tweaking accordingly. I keep hearing that the FanZ devs are working with the guys doing the CRD and know what's coming up and the next event isn't for two weeks... so why both implementing this now instead of waiting? 

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I see a lot of changes to try and specifically curb the powerhouse that is Orange style nowadays, but I can't help but feel they might be catching a few unfortunate innocents in the crossfire. Drill Memory itself is kind of neat though, I guess?

Also, we really need to get actually errata'd cards instead of adding changes to the CRD. Even if it meant just shoving in a heap of proxies, that would still be more conducive to gameplay.

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Just now, Denithan said:

I see a lot of changes to try and specifically curb the powerhouse that is Orange style nowadays, but I can't help but feel they might be catching a few unfortunate innocents in the crossfire.

Also, we really need to get actually errata'd cards instead of adding changes to the CRD. Even if it meant just shoving in a heap of proxies, that would still be more conducive to gameplay.

I agree. Erratas suck. Almost every major card game has them. Most have the luxury of doing reprints. I know that the FanZ cards will have their text updated before the awesomesauce proxy order gets shipped out, and from what I understand any cards that get errata'd in the future that are FanZ cards will include their updated version in the next sets orders.

 

It's not everything, but it's better than nothing.

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21 minutes ago, Amanax said:

Drill memory was probably needed for quite some time and has been discussed many times. Even if you're against it, you have to admit this allows for more creative design in the future?

 

Maybe it's just me... Who sees that as an upside *shrug*

 

Glad to see BAU added to Bicycle kick and Meditation. Checkup drill to 1 seems kind of meh with drill memory now added but sure, go to town.

 

I am also surprised that they released this now instead of waiting for the official one and then tweaking accordingly. I keep hearing that the FanZ devs are working with the guys doing the CRD and know what's coming up and the next event isn't for two weeks... so why both implementing this now instead of waiting? 

I didn't say I wasn't a fan of it. I just said it is done in a sloppy way and targets more than they realize. I can feel this having a negative impact beyond neutering Orange and I feel based on the way they handled Goku and Unleashed by banning Blue Terror and underdogging Red Trail Blast this is a hasty move because they are trying to avoid the real issue. 

For example, you can now only use Orange Devouring Drill once per turn. I know it's a small thing but little things like that add up fast and can hurt combos other mastery cards need to get that push that is already built into Retribution. 

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I think drill memory ruling is a positive change.

I haven't played with O Bicycle Kick so I can't really comment there.

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2 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

I think drill memory ruling is a positive change.

I haven't played with O Bicycle Kick so I can't really comment there.

My biggest concern right now is that there goal is to use this combined with power creep to handle the Retribution and Goku issue. 

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I don't think any of these changes are a problem. They're frankly pretty tame all things considered. The drill memory was a long time coming. It makes sense for consistency. And frankly there aren't that many drills that this will effect that don't deserve it.

The biggest change is probably check up drill, and most decks only ran 1 or 2 anyway. Orange doesn't have much recursion other than check up, so the bicycle kick and meditation changes are minor. 

 

Oh also I don't think your devouring drill example is correct. Devouring is a constant effect, so it should be unaffected. 

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I think you're right but reading over it again my logic works too. It specifically states Drill "Powers" in one sentence, then states just styled drills in the next. Might hit them up to see if that's a typo, though I admit I hadn't noticed that before posting.

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Here's what I sent to Fashbinder to get some clarification. 

 

On styled drills did you just mean their POWER effects or does it include CONTINUOUS. As written now it can be interpreted to mean as if not at all. Also, is it different for Freestyle since multiple copies can be out at once.

"Drills now have ‘memory’ – Powers of Drills can only be used once per turn, regardless of them leaving play and re-entering play.  Styled Drills may not be used again even if another copy of the card enters play in place of a copy that has already been used."

A clearer way would be in my opinion: 

"Drills now have 'memory' - The POWER effect of Drills can only be used once per turn, regardless of them leaving play and re-entering play or if another copy of that drill is placed into play in place of a copy that has already been used."

If Freestyles are different I'm not sure how that could work for enforcement since hidden zones exist.

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I am so happy with the new CRD.  I am LAUGHING.  Not for the reasons you expect.

I was one of the bicycle kick abusers that broke it so hard they had to nerf it.  This is AWESOME.

Joke's on them too because my Adept Gohan was only using one checkup drill BWAHAHAHAHA

 

But I have no idea what went down at West Kai.  I can't imagine they made those changes JUST because of me.  There must have been some West Kai Orange action.

THEY NEED TO POST THE DECKLISTS FROM BOTH TOURNAMENTS.

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2 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

I think drill memory ruling is a positive change.

I haven't played with O Bicycle Kick so I can't really comment there.

It is insanely strong.  A couple days before the tournament I decided to add 2 Visiting the Past to my deck just to reuse them as much as possible.  After testing I realized I struck gold.

Orange Bicycle Kick + Orange Checkup Drill + Orange Intimidating Drill is just SO FRIGGIN' STRONG.

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3 minutes ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

It is insanely strong.  A couple days before the tournament I decided to add 2 Visiting the Past to my deck just to reuse them as much as possible.  After testing I realized I struck gold.

Orange Bicycle Kick + Orange Checkup Drill + Orange Intimidating Drill is just SO FRIGGIN' STRONG.

I combo'd it with a Set 1 level 4 Goku and Torching Drill and popped it off 3 times in a single combat. The card is 100% gold no matter what you're doing with it. 

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I guess Adept got caught in the crossfire or at least due to these changes, it has less tricks to lean on. I don't know what they were thinking making Bicycle Kick. Meditation was beyond versatile. It feels weird they left these two alone for so long. I would think they would've been addressed early on based on the concern from when they were previewed.

And yeah, releasing this before Panini's is odd unless they're in cahoots. It's over two weeks until the next event anyway and there will be plenty to adjust for between the new set, Panini's CRD, and this one.

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Just now, Majin Goo said:

I combo'd it with a Set 1 level 4 Goku and Torching Drill and popped it off 3 times in a single combat. The card is 100% gold no matter what you're doing with it. 

Haha yeah I haven't seen the Torching Drill shenanigans in person but that's a whole different (and just as powerful) way to abuse the bicycle kick.

It's like you initiate combat, this starts playing and you drop bicycle kick right before 0:03

 

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"Oppsies, these two cards that we made that everyone said was busted was busted.  I guess we better add banish after use and keep beating this dead horse.  Oh and add drill memory to nerf Orange a bit and fuck over every other styles drills."

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5 minutes ago, ChangelingBard said:

"Oppsies, these two cards that we made that everyone said was busted was busted.  I guess we better add banish after use and keep beating this dead horse.  Oh and add drill memory to nerf Orange a bit and fuck over every other styles drills."

I'm not the best player in the world but the general consensus over at Retro is that this doesn't impact the other styles because their abuse of drills wasn't as high. I can see their point but the rule change needs to be written better and clarified further to weed out any doubt in what the intent is. Sucks cause the few times I got to multi use Red Forward Stance drill were nice It's not like it happened often so nerfing drills doesn't actually impact it at all?

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21 minutes ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Haha yeah I haven't seen the Torching Drill shenanigans in person but that's a whole different (and just as powerful) way to abuse the bicycle kick.

It's like you initiate combat, this starts playing and you drop bicycle kick right before 0:03

 

It basically went me using VTP to add two Orange Bicycle Kicks to the one I already had. Drawing 3. He attacks I block. I Goku into 5 Drills with 3 on the field including Orange Torching Drill for a 5 mill. He attacks I take energy damage. Orange Bicycle Kick, rejuvenate 7 drill and put them back into play for a 7 mill on Orange Torching Drill. Two more times comes to 26 total mill just from Orange Torching Drill and then two of those Orange Bicycle Kicks hit. It wasn't pretty. 

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Also, not sure how liked Orange Goku is, but putting Banish After Use does nothing if Goku decides to abuse it lol.

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12 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

I'm not the best player in the world but the general consensus over at Retro is that this doesn't impact the other styles because their abuse of drills wasn't as high. I can see their point but the rule change needs to be written better and clarified further to weed out any doubt in what the intent is. Sucks cause the few times I got to multi use Red Forward Stance drill were nice It's not like it happened often so nerfing drills doesn't actually impact it at all?

Impacts Red quite allot actually as certain builds relied heavily on ranking and recurring drills for a quick defense, anger, mill, or board control.  It also kills the want to even bother running drills as their only point would be to pop one, rank, recur. 

 

Then again it's not like I'm playing FanZ, so I guess it doesn't really effect me at all and I'm just bitching to bitch lol.

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7 minutes ago, ChangelingBard said:

Impacts Red quite allot actually as certain builds relied heavily on ranking and recurring drills for a quick defense, anger, mill, or board control.  It also kills the want to even bother running drills as their only point would be to pop one, rank, recur. 

 

Then again it's not like I'm playing FanZ, so I guess it doesn't really effect me at all and I'm just bitching to bitch lol.

Most of what I do get to play is PanZ. FanZ while really hyped in it's early stages didn't stick in a lot of places. I don't disagree with giving drill memory but it needed more planning and I think would have been perfect for incubating and releasing on set 10. That would have been the most opportune time to provide a new method for drill support since recursion was its biggest theme. 

I am excited to see what Richie gives us for the final PanZ send off. He's had a lot of time to work on it and in the off chance he's found a way to balance and stabilize PanZ it will be a fun niche game to have seeing as how I got more play sets than I would like to admit. 

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1 hour ago, Majin Goo said:

FanZ while really hyped in it's early stages didn't stick in a lot of places.

I'm not going to lie, I kind of feel like part of that was caused by just a pretty prominent lack of communication between FanZ and the PanZ community. It's a bit hard to maintain hype (or relevancy) if you don't make an active effort of open and constant communication, even between major releases/updates. I'm not sure if it's gotten better yet, but I remember there being a few big points that the blog failed to tell the community about.

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Honestly the only drill outside of orange that I can even think of that would be effected by the memory change in any significant way is red forward stance drill. And like you said, even being able to use that multiple times per combat was quite rare. The other styles simply don't have enough tech to bounce drills. Not to mention not many drills with activated powers. So to me it's a non issue.

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Drill Memory not being a thing from Day 1 seems like an oversight given MP memory.

Or they wanted shenanigans and Bicycle Kick went horribly right.

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