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Artificial Human

Why don't Living Card Games get more popular?

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4 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

I suspect this is also why 'Revived' games don't do well. Burned bridges, hurt feelings, having to rely on nostalgia. The only revived game I can think of that's not dead in TCG form is UFS and I wouldn't call it's numbers healthy. None of them, even VS in LCG form, do well. I think it's easy to understand why Hasbro rebranded Duel Masters on the relaunch.

New VS's problem is that it's 90% new mechanics, not enough of the old game to keep old fans happy.  We used to get 20 people every Friday for a damn MIDNIGHT tourney, and the next day we would have 30-40 for the reg Saturday tourney.  Now it's just me and the shop owner.  

Game of Thrones LCG was good for the first set, then powercreeped hard with every expansion. 

I had high hopes for the L5R revival, but so far it looks far too changed, and rebooting 20 years of stories seems wrong to me.

So far PanZ is the only one that seemed to do revival correctly, save it's horrible horrible ending of course.

 

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On 8/11/2017 at 7:45 PM, Artificial Human said:

I suspect this is also why 'Revived' games don't do well. Burned bridges, hurt feelings, having to rely on nostalgia. The only revived game I can think of that's not dead in TCG form is UFS and I wouldn't call it's numbers healthy. None of them, even VS in LCG form, do well. I think it's easy to understand why Hasbro rebranded Duel Masters on the relaunch.

Just to clarify, UFS never died it just went from one company to another. It has been continuously running, just under two different companies.

The other thing about UFS is that its numbers are deceiving. There are a lot of people that play, they are just very spread out. Which is different from most TCGs.

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On 8/12/2017 at 0:52 AM, ChangelingBard said:

New VS's problem is that it's 90% new mechanics, not enough of the old game to keep old fans happy.  We used to get 20 people every Friday for a damn MIDNIGHT tourney, and the next day we would have 30-40 for the reg Saturday tourney.  Now it's just me and the shop owner.  

Game of Thrones LCG was good for the first set, then powercreeped hard with every expansion. 

I had high hopes for the L5R revival, but so far it looks far too changed, and rebooting 20 years of stories seems wrong to me.

So far PanZ is the only one that seemed to do revival correctly, save it's horrible horrible ending of course.

 

This is the reason I didnt play VS. A buddy bought me the base set since I missed GenCon that year, then we learned how different it was. I wouldnt mind some of the new mechanics if they had left in some of the old ones that were removed. Like playing Plot Twists from the resource row. I think that was a genius way to do a resource system. That was my biggest gripe about their changes. Havent even touched the base set. If I want to play VS, I have a friend who still has multiple decks. Ill just play the old game.

Im ready for L5R. I never played the old game. I was always interested in it, but always had too many hobbies for how little free time I had. I dont know the mechanics anyways, so this wont really change anything to me. I just hope they dont ruin it. Fantasy Flight has a problem with power creep, then correcting it with more power on the opposite side. Seeing that this is a beloved ip that has a cult following, hopefully they take great care with it. Though they do have Star Wars, too, and that has a pretty big power problem.

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On 8/11/2017 at 7:45 PM, Artificial Human said:

That's actually a really sad reality. When things die, no one wants to keep on the memory. I suspect it's got a lot to do with when games die, it's always after the company being silent and things end on a bad note. The community goes hostile and community leaders become fascist in nature, except TCGTopTier as Jarrett felt as burned as we did. 'All the death talk will be silenced, those who speak it will be banned.' is how Kaijudo went down, how Duel Masters went down, how the Retro side of Pan Z went down and is how Force of Will is at the moment.

I suspect this is also why 'Revived' games don't do well. Burned bridges, hurt feelings, having to rely on nostalgia. The only revived game I can think of that's not dead in TCG form is UFS and I wouldn't call it's numbers healthy. None of them, even VS in LCG form, do well. I think it's easy to understand why Hasbro rebranded Duel Masters on the relaunch.

Part of it is that there are so many other games to move on to. If you know the game is going to die, and you want to support a live game that has OP so you have consistent events to go to, there's no reason not to sell a lot of your stuff. You need to a starting investment to get into a new game. The best way to do that is selling your old game. I still have multiple OldZ decks, old Retro format (Basically just Focused ScoreZ since I have no Retro virtual cards in my deck), and my old Expanded Broly Energetic. Broly hasnt been used since the expanded format was actual Score OP, and my Focused Z deck hasnt been used since the last Retro event I went to like 4-5 yrs ago. I could get some decent cash for stuff that's in them, like Fatherly Advice, tons of foils (My Buu Blue is completely foiled) to put into another hobby. I would have by now, but Im too lazy. Though Im probably gonna sell all my non deck promo/ur/foils soon.

Same with Bleach. I have a GIGANTIC Bleach collection.15+ of nearly all subset cards, 10+ of a lot of the UR's, tons of promos and foils, nearly a playset of the game plus more. Since the game died, Ive only played a few matches with one person.

Part of it can also be that you rarely get new players. Dead CCG's are not casual friendly for someone to pickup if they havent played before. This is why I tend to have a few casual multiplayer games with me, like Exploding Kittens, Sushi Go, or Flux. Very simple games that take hardly a minute to learn. Nostalgic games are great when you have others near you who want to enjoy the depth of mechanics that a good CCG can give you, since you generally have more mechanics, in depth rulings, and deck strategies to learn.

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If Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro does what I think they might do they could potentially be wanting to do away with the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game business model altogether in favor of the Living Card Game business model by devaluing the entire history of MTG as a means of releasing a product that contains nothing but reprints of all the Reserved List cards including the Power Nine and pass it off as Iconic Masters due to recent forced buyouts of expensive cards and insider trading with the game nearing it's 25th Anniversary which would be a slap in the face to MTG players who've already invested in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and EDH/Commander.

The only way they can pull that off is by rescinding the Reserved List altogether which a lot of MTG players are debating whether If it's healthy or detrimental to the game overall similar to the Chronicles conundrum that happened way back when the reality is that both players and collectors would end up getting screwed over in the process and since cards would no longer have any monetary value there would no longer be any incentive to play MTG in any format as it would create a domino effect within the Secondary Market affecting other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games currently in circulation right now by putting those companies out of business as an end result.

So does this mean that Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro already have a Living Card Game in the works to replace MTG? If they did they wouldn't have kept it a secret this year at GenCon especially when L5R is getting a Living Card Game revival as they probably don't want to risk competing in the Living Card Game market when they're already at the top of their game when it comes to the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game market so why stop now? Do they really want to run the risk of dumping an old business model for a new one that could potentially be less profitable for them in the long run that isn't designed to be a money pit for consumers?

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On 8/20/2017 at 7:24 PM, Card Slinger J said:

If Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro does what I think they might do they could potentially be wanting to do away with the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game business model altogether in favor of the Living Card Game business model by devaluing the entire history of MTG as a means of releasing a product that contains nothing but reprints of all the Reserved List cards including the Power Nine and pass it off as Iconic Masters due to recent forced buyouts of expensive cards and insider trading with the game nearing it's 25th Anniversary which would be a slap in the face to MTG players who've already invested in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and EDH/Commander.

The only way they can pull that off is by rescinding the Reserved List altogether which a lot of MTG players are debating whether If it's healthy or detrimental to the game overall similar to the Chronicles conundrum that happened way back when the reality is that both players and collectors would end up getting screwed over in the process and since cards would no longer have any monetary value there would no longer be any incentive to play MTG in any format as it would create a domino effect within the Secondary Market affecting other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games currently in circulation right now by putting those companies out of business as an end result.

So does this mean that Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro already have a Living Card Game in the works to replace MTG? If they did they wouldn't have kept it a secret this year at GenCon especially when L5R is getting a Living Card Game revival as they probably don't want to risk competing in the Living Card Game market when they're already at the top of their game when it comes to the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game market so why stop now? Do they really want to run the risk of dumping an old business model for a new one that could potentially be less profitable for them in the long run that isn't designed to be a money pit for consumers?

Those run on sentences tho. o_O

 

Seriously, WotC is not going to take their huge money pit and drop it down to LCG.  there is no reason at all to do that.  If we needed any other evidence, they just announced a HUGE shift back to Core+3 format.  Why would they do that and then swap to LCG before the new release format has even begun?

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9 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

WotC makes so much damn money off of MTG why would they do that?

Just a guess?

8 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

The game has been in the shitter since they stopped the Core-1-2-3 yearly release schedule, and the meta prior to the shift was pretty garbage too.

Last I checked they're bringing back Core Sets and they finally managed to make Standard playable again.

7 hours ago, Stryyder said:

Those run on sentences tho. o_O

 

Seriously, WotC is not going to take their huge money pit and drop it down to LCG.  there is no reason at all to do that.  If we needed any other evidence, they just announced a HUGE shift back to Core+3 format.  Why would they do that and then swap to LCG before the new release format has even begun?

You really had to criticize me about run on sentences again? -_-

Anyway you make a valid point though, last I checked on the contents for Iconic Masters there's not enough cards in the set to devalue the entire game since the Reserved List contains more than 200+ cards dating from Alpha/Beta/Unlimited through Mercadian Masques. However there have been cases where they've gotten away with reprinting Reserved List cards regardless If they've been reprinted in a previous Core Set.

Otherwise the set would be too expensive to purchase as the MSRP price would be through the roof not to mention how expensive booster packs would be compared to Modern and Eternal Masters where boosters were like $10-15+ a pack. There's just no incentive to do so when it would anger the collectors who are keeping the game alive compared to the people who actually play that struggle to obtain expensive cards in their decks.

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