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cytorak

FanZ Set 10 - "Revelation"

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12 hours ago, Fastest In The Universe said:

He probably meant absolutes. Every Style has anger gain but Red and Saiyan do it best. 

Saiyan arguably doesn't do it on par with Red. It's Masteries do. Even then, it's mostly Empowered and niche builds of Rampaging. Black can, but I don't think anyone really uses all the Anger in Black for an MPPV x DBV or Survival deck. Irregardless, Anger is a general mechanic used for leveling. For everyone not being able to do it period would be a massive game flaw.

12 hours ago, Fastest In The Universe said:

All Styles have Rejuvenation but Namekian does it best. 

Not really, no. Orange and Blue don't so much 'Rejuvenate' as they use it as a way to regain access to Drills and Allies respectively. For them, it's more akin to Namekian shuffling a Dragon Ball back in. Black and Red have so little it's not even worth mentioning. Black has like 5 cards that rejuvenate your cards, none of which being things you'd use. Red isn't much better, but the quality of card is higher. Things you'd actually play, but for Red it'd be more to circumvent the fact it's drawing cards with it's Red Enraged, slimming the deck down. Then we have Saiyan and especially Namekian, for both of which there are a slew of cards that Rejuvenate.

There is a very definite divide between how little and why Orange, Red and Blue 'Rejuvenate', the lack of Rejuvenation in Black, then the amount of Rejuvenation Saiyan and Namekian do.

 

12 hours ago, Fastest In The Universe said:

 It's also kind of misleading to just call it a Freestyle when most Personalities won't be able to get the second play.

No it's not. It's no different to Orange Gathering being Orange or Assisted Kamehameha being Freestyle. It's a further restriction in an attempt to justify what they're doing and lock off certain combinations.

 

12 hours ago, Fastest In The Universe said:

Targeted Rejuve has mostly been kept out of Namekian's reach(Kami can do it and is Namekian), to the point where you could say it specifically isn't a part of the Style. Saiyan actually has the most I think.

panini-america-2014-dragon-ball-z-uncomm

 

Namekian selectively rejuvenates from a Staple. Up to 4 cards at once. Without Banish After Use. No restriction of not Rejuvenating itself. I don't think Saiyan compares to that with exactly nothing worth mentioning as a staple. Closest you get is Saiyan Rescue.

 

13 hours ago, Fastest In The Universe said:

The Kai should be God/Alien and have access to both this and Blue Terror. Freeza can Rejuvenate his named cards, potentially triggering Frieza's Arrogance twice. Pikkon plays it twice and his Named card has a Rejuv trigger. Tien isn't an Alien but Preparation getting Rejuvenated does draw a card and at Level 4 he can use it twice anyways.

So you're saying all these characters would like to rejuvenate cards. But let's play a little thought exercise.

Problem:
We have a fair few characters that would really like rejuvenation of key cards to set off triggered abilities or general recursion. The only styles where this is anywhere near reliable is Saiyan and Namekian, both of which are exclusive. None of the styles these characters have access to can provide what they want. In Black it barely exists, Red only really does it to counteract some self destruction, Orange and Blue do it to reoccur some specific card types.

Research:
Blue also has a theme of putting cards back on the deck, such as Blue Positioning Drill, Blue Energy Overload, Blue Torpedo, Blue Rest, Blue Narrow Escape and Blue Crouch, all from Premier alone. This is a fair wack of cards.

Finding:
Placing cards on top of the deck isn't terribly different from Rejuvenation. Blue has a theme of doing this. Blue is defensive and healing is part and parcel of defense.

Solution:
Open up Rejuvenation to Blue. It already has a variation on it and this gives access to Rejuvenation for all characters.

 

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Saiyan focuses on cheating out Levels more than the Anger manipulation or MPPV done by Red, but I just didn't want to gloss over it when acknowledging Styles that use Anger the most. Anger is definitely a general game mechanic, which is part of my point since I think Rejuvenation is as well. Saiyan and Namekian do it the most by far like we both said, but even if the powerlevel is on average worse for the other Styles they still have a lot of cards that can do it in addition to the already existing Styleless Rejuvenating options. 

2 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

It's no different to Orange Gathering being Orange or Assisted Kamehameha being Freestyle. It's a further restriction in an attempt to justify what they're doing and lock off certain combinations.

The restriction in this case seems to be specifically disallowing Namekian(and Saiyan?) Users and blocks off its accessibility to some of the Earthlings who excel at Energy attacks. What I meant by calling it Freestyle being misleading is that it's much more locked off than something like AK ends up being. Unless they decide to make Nail and Slug Alien-Namekians and do the same for earlier Saiyans, which I really doubt since I'm assuming Alien is supposed to be a catch-all for non-Traited races, roughly 5-6 MPs should currently be able to use it fully. That number will grow with time, but it's still a fraction of all Personalities. It's more akin to a Named card or Allies that only work with listed Personalities, cards typically given much more leeway than other Styleless ones. Do you think many Personalities that can't use it twice will run it anyways?

Yeah, NHD is the ubiquitous example and I probably should've said that instead of Kami L2, but he was kind of fresh on the mind. Other Styles do have targeted Rejuvenations and some cards that trigger when Rejuvenated, but they're just not as powerful as NHD. It was brought up a lot as a freezing candidate with good reason, and I think Namekian Airborne Attack makes it clear that they want to limit how many cards will let Namekian target and Rejuv any of their Styled cards.
 

3 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

We have a fair few characters that would really like rejuvenation of key cards to set off triggered abilities or general recursion. The only styles where this is anywhere near reliable is Saiyan and Namekian, both of which are exclusive. None of the styles these characters have access to can provide what they want. In Black it barely exists, Red only really does it to counteract some self destruction, Orange and Blue do it to reoccur some specific card types.

Open up Rejuvenation to Blue. It already has a variation on it and this gives access to Rejuvenation for all characters.

I think that's kind of their point. In the Styles/Personalities that could make use of this targeted Rejuvenation is still rare, and Rejuvenating specific cards usually isn't as good at triggering other effects as Namekian is(Orange has some okay cards that lower anger when Rejuvenated for example), so the card makes up for and helps out the strategy on its own by being playable twice. Red Leap is probably the best of any Styled Red/Orange/Blue/Black card to Rejuve and Orange has a few mediocre ones for anger reduction, but you'd probably still like to run this in a Deck with multiple trigger targets, and the Personalities themselves help to provide those. Playing it twice is still good even if you aren't Rejuvenating anything spectacular, though.

As for a greater focus on Blue's method of Rejuve I agree that this would be good (so long as it didn't push Cooler over the edge), but all Styles already have their own method of Rejuvenation focus, such as Orange and Drill Rejuve. I think this limited support for it works fine as is. 

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I wonder how far down the rabbit hole they're going to go with Traits. While most personalities are straightforward, I feel like arguments can be made for several MPs. 

  • Is Cell going to be just Saiyan and Namekian, or will he have Android as well?
  • Will Gohan be Saiyan, Namekian, and Earthling?
  • Is King Kai a God, or is he an Alien, or both?

 

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22 hours ago, cytorak said:

Dat Endurance, tho.

IMG_5879.JPG

Dag, yo.  Is there a card that makes your opponent destroy cards from their life deck every time you perform an attack that combat?  I can't think of any, though there are red ascension cards that make them lose stages per attack as long as you have gained stages, which dynamite kick does, so that would be a sufficient compromise.  With this belt you could mill the SHAT out of them.

Defiant Challenge to get that sweet, sweet endurance back?

Whoa.  This is sounding pretty good. Red Ascension + shoulder grab + that one card I am thinking of + spamming this.  Crits and mills for dayz, YO.

Edit: I think the card I am thinking of only makes them lose stages when you use THAT attack.  Maybe I'll just pull up the Awakening Checklist. 

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3 minutes ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Whoa.  This is sounding pretty good. Red Ascension + shoulder grab + that one card I am thinking of + spamming this.  Crits and mills for dayz, YO.

Didn't they nerf shoulder grab so it doesn't do stuff like that anymore?

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17 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

Anger is a general mechanic used for leveling. For everyone not being able to do it period would be a massive game flaw.

You mean like Score Z? :P

One of the biggest issues with Score Z imo.  If you were Namekian, blue, or orange, have fun leveling up. NO UNLEASHED TO SAVE YOU!!!

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1 hour ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Oh damn.  All you have to do is get to Hercule level 4 and the belt becomes broken.  I overlooked the obvious.  I'm totally making this deck. 

Yeah man 24 unpreventable LC of damage on level 4 :D

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7 hours ago, cytorak said:

I wonder how far down the rabbit hole they're going to go with Traits. While most personalities are straightforward, I feel like arguments can be made for several MPs. 

  • Is Cell going to be just Saiyan and Namekian, or will he have Android as well?
  • Will Gohan be Saiyan, Namekian, and Earthling?
  • Is King Kai a God, or is he an Alien, or both?

 

Cell should be everything but Majin/God, because he's comprised of Earthlings, Aliens, Saiyans, Namekians, and is an Android. King Kai should be Alien/God if Kami is the baseline to go off of. Idk if Gohan will be a Saiyan/Earthling/Namekian, or a Saiyan/Earthling with access to Namekian Style, but he should probably be an Earthling too since he's born there and is half human. Is Goku a Saiyan/Earthling or just Saiyan?

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7 minutes ago, cytorak said:

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Interesting card!  I'm actually happy this is freestyle as opposed to say, Namekian, though this obviously appeals to Namekians with the trait requirement and all.  Namekian builds will love this but will need to consider the fact that this is one less styled card in the deck.  Orange decks with a Namekian MP maybe? 

Oh damn too bad it is an energy attack or this would be AWESOME for my Orange Adept Gohan.

 

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Calling it. This set will nearly be entirely freestyle. The theme of the set, traits, would lean that way. Saiyan and Namekian would turn out entirely Cell and Gohan otherwise. Next year it wouldn't be so had, you have Majin Vegeta, but then you most as well just make more Named for Vegeta that are Saiyan Style and Majin Trait locked.

 

Focused Beams I good card, opens up drill stabilisation outside of Goku and Orange Adaptive. I think there are probably some good decks in general it would like.

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1 hour ago, Artificial Human said:

Calling it. This set will nearly be entirely freestyle. The theme of the set, traits, would lean that way. Saiyan and Namekian would turn out entirely Cell and Gohan otherwise. Next year it wouldn't be so had, you have Majin Vegeta, but then you most as well just make more Named for Vegeta that are Saiyan Style and Majin Trait locked.

 

Focused Beams I good card, opens up drill stabilisation outside of Goku and Orange Adaptive. I think there are probably some good decks in general it would like.

Well I assume they're hiding styled cards for the moment because we don't know anything about the masteries and they want to keep it that way. Just a guess though. 

I do agree that we will see more freestyle cards though.

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3 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

Didier Greenleaf dropped a hint that if you're making Blue Frieza, wait 25 days for the new Mastery.

Theorise away.

WHAT!  I have a Blue Frieza!  Maybe the mastery turns some styled cards into named cards?  Rejuventates named cards from the banished zone? 

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7 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

Didier Greenleaf dropped a hint that if you're making Blue Frieza, wait 25 days for the new Mastery.

Theorise away.

Man, now I'm contemplating the possibility of Masteries with Trait-specific effects and I am all kinds of confused about how to feel about that.

On one hand, the potential for a Black Mastery that's Android specific and gives them all extra ways to pay stage costs for energy attacks could be badass. On the other hand, the potential to see a Namekian Mastery with a Saiyan-Trait effect sounds terrifying (given how strong Saiyan MP based Namekian cards have been so far).

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I'm hoping he means the new Blue Mastery will  be copy-based which has been a long time coming. I haven't built Blue Golden Frieza since the promo came out, but I can't think of anything specific that would make you want build him out of Blue now except just because.

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Copy was the first thing I thought too. Last set had some support for the playstyle. I don't think they'd limit masteries by stamping traits on them. I definitely see styled cards getting trait effects but limiting something like a mastery would be lame.

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2 hours ago, Denithan said:

Man, now I'm contemplating the possibility of Masteries with Trait-specific effects and I am all kinds of confused about how to feel about that.

On one hand, the potential for a Black Mastery that's Android specific and gives them all extra ways to pay stage costs for energy attacks could be badass. On the other hand, the potential to see a Namekian Mastery with a Saiyan-Trait effect sounds terrifying (given how strong Saiyan MP based Namekian cards have been so far).

Interesting that we have 7 Traits, though Majin won't be properly established till the next Starter set, and 6 Styles. Also interesting No18 is here, given she's very minor in the story.  But saying that, Set 10 doesn't have an Alien as far as we know, the Mastery can't be paired with anything. Not that that matters now, but it's still eh, not right. Blue Copy Mastery is vastly more probable, but I'd be curious to see Trait Masteries if they ever come to pass.

I just wish they'd tell us who the MPs are. 3 more.

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The Supreme Kai and Dabura are confirmed and should be Aliens. I wouldn't mind Trait restrictions on one or two Masteries, but I hope not all of them have it and I really hope Namekian and Saiyan don't get a second restriction. They might just add multiple bonuses, so that Androids and Gods for example each get a different secondary Mastery benefit for a particular Style.

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10 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

I'm hoping he means the new Blue Mastery will  be copy-based which has been a long time coming. I haven't built Blue Golden Frieza since the promo came out, but I can't think of anything specific that would make you want build him out of Blue now except just because.

Oh, of course!  I should have thought of this immediately.  This seems like the most probable possibility.

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