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Cardfight Vanguard (and other bushiroad games)

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Dragoborne seems to have been dead on arrival. I can't find anywhere that seams to care and the only friend I know has tried it said he hated the die for the rng. Can't say I'd like it myself for that reason, frankly I was hoping it was more of a Magic Clone. Don't know how it is in the old US of A, but down here, nadda. But this seems a bit of par the course of Bushiroad these days in Australia. Both Luck and Logic and to a lesser extent Buddyfight had similar problems. I know some places still play Buddyfight, but it's really rare. Nothing like Vanguard or really, even WS. WS is rare, but seems to have a more devoted fan base and easier to find.

Vanguard truly was lightning in a bottle me thinks.

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On 10/9/2017 at 4:09 AM, Artificial Human said:

Strides being released over RR when they are desired by everyone that plays that clan was money grubbing, pure and simple. Doesn't take a genius to see 'High Scarcity+High Demand=PROFIT!!!'

Stride arguably removed everything that the Original Series did with 'My Avatar', because it's not your avatar anymore, it's something that is triggered by your toolbox and has gives a further name to your toolbox. There is nothing to grow attached too, despite their half dozen variations of the new G3 over G3 and G4. It stopped feeling like Vanguard with Stride.

It's really damning on their developers that they had to continuously power creep and add new mechanics despite the game being fine in Block 3/Break Ride Era.

Bushiroad doesn't understand the concept of unlimited print runs on their products like other Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game companies do where players are still able to get the cards they need without having to worry about supply and demand issues. Why is that so hard for them to understand?

'Stride Fusion' and 'Stride Evolution' was an attempt to retain the 'My Avatar' aspect of the game in order to make up for the flavor fail of a G unit gaining the card name of a Grade 3 or 'heart card' in the Vanguard circle. Had Legion been completely avoided, Vanguard probably would've still been in Block 3/Break Ride Era.

On 10/9/2017 at 4:22 AM, Denithan said:

Stride came way too soon, and was handled poorly. It went on to be a toolbox, instead of a specific G3 to a stride. What's hilarious is that even the lore of Stride doesn't really function with the toolbox mechanic, since it's meant to imply some kind of link with the summoner and the unit being called from the past/alternate reality/future. A good example of how stride COULD have been handled is in Blaster Dark "Diablo". Give Blaster Dark specific strides that ONLY he can use (and maybe Vortimer too, ig), and are barely a good attacker to the others. This would make Stride a much more limited mechanic, and would make it so much more meaningful when ALL your accessible strides are based on your G3. This would also be a more natural progression of Seek the Mate/Legion Mate, where your G3 grabs an ally that they're closely linked to to fight alongside. Only in this instance, they're calling an idealized version of an ally to fight on their behalf.

The irony is that Stride could've been completely avoided had Legion not of added more power creep to the game by being able to toolbox from the drop zone which explains why we haven't seen any new support for the mechanic due to how broken it is with G Guardians.

On 10/13/2017 at 8:01 AM, Artificial Human said:

Dragoborne seems to have been dead on arrival. I can't find anywhere that seams to care and the only friend I know has tried it said he hated the die for the rng. Can't say I'd like it myself for that reason, frankly I was hoping it was more of a Magic Clone. Don't know how it is in the old US of A, but down here, nadda. But this seems a bit of par the course of Bushiroad these days in Australia. Both Luck and Logic and to a lesser extent Buddyfight had similar problems. I know some places still play Buddyfight, but it's really rare. Nothing like Vanguard or really, even WS. WS is rare, but seems to have a more devoted fan base and easier to find.

Vanguard truly was lightning in a bottle me thinks.

Bushiroad should focus solely on Vanguard instead of churning out TCG after TCG in an already crowded market where you still have the big three with MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokémon, and 'insert TCG/CCG name here' etc. Why do you think more gaming companies are investing in the LCG model with L5R and Star Wars?

They either need to get over their quantity over quality mentality, adapt to a different gaming model, or just don't bother. That's the equivalent of Sega potentially wanting to get back in the video game console race between Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo when they're much better off developing software.

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26 minutes ago, Card Slinger J said:

The irony is that Stride could've been completely avoided had Legion not of added more power creep to the game by being able to toolbox from the drop zone which explains why we haven't seen any new support for the mechanic due to how broken it is with G Guardians.

Will respond to other stuff later as I'm about to run off, but just a quick fyi, you can only have 4 face-up G-Guards in your G-Zone. After that, you can't use G-Guards anymore. Genuine ruling. So even with Legion, you get 4 G-Guards, and that's that.
Also, we've seen a lot of new support for that mechanic over time o-O Ripples only GOT their Legion after Stride came out, and EVERYTHING with The X only came post-stride. Same goes for Vermillion. And none of them did anything in the Stride meta because Stride is absurd. Well, ripples did, but not because of Legion.

ftr, I hate how out of hand legion got, as I said before, but it's not as bad as a lot of people make it sound.

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I like Legion a lot. I think it's a fun, interactive mechanic that just needed some tweaking to be perfect as a mechanic. Maybe limiting what can be chucked back into the deck? I maintain that Legion itself isn't a problem, it's the cards designed for it. Too explosive for a plodding, passive mechanic.

However, and this is a big however, I don't think it's an era I'd want to ever play again. The English Block 1+ 2 or 3? I could be perfectly happy revisiting those and I did like Legion for a few decks, mostly Bloody/End, Brawlers and Liberators, but I don't want to revisit it. Machining, Dimensional Robo and Royal gave me a bit of shell shock, sure, but the entire format, even expanding into G Era for Legions to have an extended Legion format, just not appealing. It's something I discussed with my friend recently. We may both like it, but it's not a varied format due to being a stop gap and had some absolutely toxic decks.

Compare to the end of Limit Break, I would argue every single clan has something relatively viable and there is a lot of fun to be had. Sure many clans might be limited to 1 deck, but it's varied and doesn't have anything incredibly oppressive, except maybe Omega Glendious. Maybe.

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I had not even heard of Dragoborne before Gencon in August, when a friend asked me to pick up a few promos.  I got a couple of demo decks and read through the rules.  Definitely a unique game amid a sea of clones, but the concept just didn't click for me.  Add generic fantasy/anime artwork with no real story cohesion and I'm out.

I wish companies would actually put some work into the lore of their games these days.  Do some top down design instead of "What if we put together Nuns, Dragons and Zombies?" (looking at you Vanguard).  All flash, no substance.

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On 10/23/2017 at 11:06 AM, Stryyder said:

I had not even heard of Dragoborne before Gencon in August, when a friend asked me to pick up a few promos.  I got a couple of demo decks and read through the rules.  Definitely a unique game amid a sea of clones, but the concept just didn't click for me.  Add generic fantasy/anime artwork with no real story cohesion and I'm out.

I wish companies would actually put some work into the lore of their games these days.  Do some top down design instead of "What if we put together Nuns, Dragons and Zombies?" (looking at you Vanguard).  All flash, no substance.

As far as I recall there's been some substantial lore within Cardfight!! Vanguard in regards to the units on Planet Cray aside from Bushiroad's baseless claim of them being genderless species, but as for the actual anime and manga I think they go by their own separate head canon just like in Dragon Ball Super where one contradicts the other for no apparent reason whatsoever.

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Vanguard also has lore in regards to

Season 1:
The clans being amidst a global civil war caused by a Paladin Dragon driven insane by hearing everyone's thoughts

Season 2 and 3:
An invasion from space by Link Joker and their Star Vader armada.

Season 4:
The removal of Blaster Blade from time and his subsequent transformation as Blaster Joker.

Season 5:
The revival of the knowledge of Stride.

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I'd actually argue that Season 2's lore had more to do with the resurgence of an ancient clan in Aqua Force, and the ensuing fight to save the Royal and Shadow Paladins (the Gold Paladins were actually originally the force brought forward out of leftovers from the two, to save those who were held). Both in lore and in the anime, we were only given hints that Link Joker were the people pulling the strings. For the most part, it was just all out war against Aqua Force.

And it should probably be noted that part of the old lore for why Stride was suddenly possible was because of the time-space disruptions caused by Season 4 (with the creation and destruction of an alternate timeline as a result of the Seekers saving Blaster Blade).

Also, is anyone else disappointed that the return of "The Vanguard", Majesty Lord Blaster (who was hyped as being the entire reason season 2 and 4 happened), was REALLY anti-climatic with Messiahnic Lord Blaster? Like, shit, we've been waiting for a new MLB LITERALLY SINCE HE FIRST APPEARED. And we finally get him, and he is just... UTTERLY disappointing.

On a side, I liked that Season 4 actually argued against a very big point in the lore about how important Blaster Blade was. You remove him from the equation, and Alfred still beats PBD/Dark (which, why did Dark turn? Dark turned originally because Ahmes was chosen as Blaster Blade's wielder. Remove him, and there's no triggering event to make him become Blaster Dark), PBD/Dark are still one half of the "Vanguard" and become major leaders in the fight against LJ, and Dragonic Overlord still goes along Overlording. In fact, even AqF turned good again without the defeat at the hands of Ezel.

That said, I did really hate how the lore of Season 4 argued that Blaster Dark and Blaster Blade were the two lights, and had all this foreshadowing in Dark's short stories and a lot of the lore on either side about how Dark was going to save Blade, and then Ren just kind of sat out the entire end of the series. Especially when you think about how narrative-ly satisfying it would've been for Ren to save Aichi at the end after the inverse in Season 1.

But nah, Kai. Sure. Why not.

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BUSHIROAD IS TRYING TO MAKE VANGUARD GREAT AGAIN

LINKY

Japanese Linky with more info

> Reboot! Back to Season 1 with Manga influences.

> All new cards based on the original series.

> G Units are gone. BUH BYE. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. IF YOU EVER COME BACK, WE'LL KILL YA!

> Vanguard essentially introduces Rotation. Reboot Only from June.

> G3 now have a standard 13k power. Images from the stream show Blaster Blade at 10k, images seem to show Wingul at 8k. So G1 and G2 got a +1 buff.

> All 24 clans stay.

> Each clan gains a new attribute. When you ride a G3 with an Imaginary Gift, they either; Force: Choose a circle and it gets +10k on your turn. Can stack once. Accel: An additional front row circle with +10k power on your turn. Protect: Gain a Perfect Guard. Each clan has one of these individually.

> Stand Triggers are replaced with Force Triggers, +10 to front row. All Triggers are +10 now.

> Shields all seem to be +10 now.

> Trial Decks are now like the Legend Decks. Standard 1/16/14/11/8 everyone plays. Includes 4 of your boss/iconic card and 4 PG.

 

First time I've been excited for Vanguard since Breakride ended.

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5 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

BUSHIROAD IS TRYING TO MAKE VANGUARD GREAT AGAIN

LINKY

Japanese Linky with more info

> Reboot! Back to Season 1 with Manga influences.

> All new cards based on the original series.

> G Units are gone. BUH BYE. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. IF YOU EVER COME BACK, WE'LL KILL YA!

> Vanguard essentially introduces Rotation. Reboot Only from June.

> G3 now have a standard 13k power. Images from the stream show Blaster Blade at 10k, images seem to show Wingul at 8k. So G1 and G2 got a +1 buff.

> All 24 clans stay.

> Each clan gains a new attribute. When you ride a G3 with an Imaginary Gift, they either; Force: Choose a circle and it gets +10k on your turn. Can stack once. Accel: An additional front row circle with +10k power on your turn. Protect: Gain a Perfect Guard. Each clan has one of these individually.

> Stand Triggers are replaced with Force Triggers, +10 to front row. All Triggers are +10 now.

> Shields all seem to be +10 now.

> Trial Decks are now like the Legend Decks. Standard 1/16/14/11/8 everyone plays. Includes 4 of your boss/iconic card and 4 PG.

 

First time I've been excited for Vanguard since Breakride ended.

YESSSSSSSSSS

I honest to bloody god NEVER thought they'd pull something like this. I am so god damn excited.

I will say, a bit disappointed that they aren't just killing off the G-Zone and letting us keep everything else. Would've loved a chance to dust off my old-school Revengers deck for some fun, or even to bring out my Deletors and just drop the strider. But I will take what I can get |:
Also not sure how I feel about Force Triggers as opposed to the old stand triggers. My first impression is that they're power-creeping the hell out of the classic format, and that's either really good, or fucking terrible depending on what they do with the new G3s.

And I'm curious about the Imaginary Gift system, seems to be an inverted Break Ride like with Ezel. But I do love how much better it seems to make Alfred Early, where he can give +10k to his front row.

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I think it's more about taking everything they learned from the original and G generation, then restarting with everything in mind than power creep of any real sort.

Freedom Duo said they want to keep the game having a brisk pace, hence why everything is a little big.

The demo decks are interesting, btw. Nehalam is a Dragonic Deathscythe clone, except CB2 for a kill is an ACT now, not an AUTO. Also, the shields are all over the place. Heals replace G Guardians in base value for example.

Bushiroad Makes Vanguard Great Again!

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Huh, well shit.

To be honest, I can speculate a lot here, but I think it might just be for the best for me to hold out and wait and see at this point. One way or the other though, I am definitely going to be investing hard when it launches. With how Vanguard has been, I definitely want to support bushiroad when they finally do things right. Maybe positive reinforcement will help things along?

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On 3/14/2018 at 5:38 AM, Denithan said:

YESSSSSSSSSS

I honest to bloody god NEVER thought they'd pull something like this. I am so god damn excited.

I will say, a bit disappointed that they aren't just killing off the G-Zone and letting us keep everything else. Would've loved a chance to dust off my old-school Revengers deck for some fun, or even to bring out my Deletors and just drop the strider. But I will take what I can get |:
Also not sure how I feel about Force Triggers as opposed to the old stand triggers. My first impression is that they're power-creeping the hell out of the classic format, and that's either really good, or fucking terrible depending on what they do with the new G3s.

And I'm curious about the Imaginary Gift system, seems to be an inverted Break Ride like with Ezel. But I do love how much better it seems to make Alfred Early, where he can give +10k to his front row.

Killing off the G-Zone wouldn't have bode well for veteran players who've already spent roughly half as much as their main deck but I get where you're coming from though. Vanguard Premium is looking more like MTG Modern where they're going to allow power creep to go unchecked without banning anything while focusing entirely on Standard except with Modern being the main focus in MTG.

That being said I think Premium will be the go to format for veteran players while Standard helps newcomers and those who are nostalgic for the original series without having to learn 13 different mechanics. I'm just glad I managed to trade away Gurguit for Blasters when I did before the announcement came so that I can tweak it for Premium to see what kind of interactions I can come up with for the new Alfred Early.

With the next set after G Booster Set 14 focusing on Royal Paladin, Kagero, Oracle Think Tank, and Nova Grappler for Standard I'm looking to build a competitive Dragonic Overlord deck that isn't as busted as in Premium with Drachma as the main finisher. It'll be interesting to see how they'll tie in Gear Chronicle for Standard without relying on the G-Zone with more of an emphasis on Time Leap If they ever reach that point in time.

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2 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

It'll be interesting to see how they'll tie in Gear Chronicle for Standard without relying on the G-Zone with more of an emphasis on Time Leap If they ever reach that point in time.

I mean, we're assuming that they're going to be giving us the same Gear Chronicle as we had last time. They could very easily focus more on the spinning side of them, or even go for Tiger's style of gameplay, where you bind your own units to then call them directly from the Bind Zone. Honestly, I think it'd be disappointing if they DO just go straight back to how they are now.

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ngl, I kind of feel like that's a good thing IF they keep Front Triggers away from Nova Grappler and Aqua Force. Like, those triggers were DEFINITELY made for those two, but geesh, could you imagine Blue Wave/Thavas with Front triggers? Bumping Tidal Assault up to 19k WITHOUT any extra boosts, then pushing him further still with extra restands.

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