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So guys Set 10's been out for a few days and we've had a moment to take it in. What decks are you immediately drawn to and want to build? For me I really like the idea of a few Resourceful decks. Nappa, Raditz, Piccolo, and the list goes on. I'm really enjoying a few Amplified decks as well. Cooler and Pikkon to be specific. I may build a Kid Trunks deck in Orange or Saiyan. Also liked the idea of Retribution or Ascension Supreme Kai to get to that level 3 as quick as possible.

I'd also like to add that there are a ton of MP's added in this set and each of them seem very strong at face value. Which of these new playable characters do you think is the most balanced and best designed for the game? I've only played a few rounds against Supreme Kai and nothing against other new MP's as of yet so I can't really comment from experience on this. I think however, Kid Trunks has great powers, great flavor, and doesn't seem to be a point of contention for anyone since his reveal. So he would have my vote.

Edited by Antispor
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Well Broly needs a new home now. I think Red Ruthless and Blue Resourceful can certainly give the Saiyan Masteries some decent competition. 

Mppv decks that juggle Red tactical drill have been handed autopilot software in the form of Amplified Mastery, which could prove to be strong (Amplified Cooler/Krillin is potentially a disaster waiting to happen).

I will be toying with Nam phys beats with the new Piccolo, red/black sword Dabura, and Oppressive Saiyan with a tier 2 MP. 

 

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For fun I'm  bringing back my Vengeance Roshi black deck. From there I'm thinking something Red Style. For anything serious I'm going to wait for the dust to settle on grown Trunks Oppressive. As someone who almost exclusively played non-interactive decks through PanZ, it's pretty busted for right now. Given some time for creativity and it might mellow out. I think people forget that balance isn't just about being broken or unfair, it includes over centralization. If you don't put hard checks and counters in your deck for it, whether it wins the tournament is irrelevant. It will still force centralization if you want to come out on top. 

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I tried Black Conflict with the new Piccolo stack because of the obvious discard synergy.  I put it up against the ol' Orange Adept Gohan figuring piccolo would have so much stage gain that he could thwart physical beatdown.

...then I remembered why I love my Adept Gohan and watched as it refused to care about Piccolo's stupid garbage trash and proceeded to mop the floor with him.  My Black Conflict Piccolo was trying to be beatdown and control at the same time and doing neither particularly well.  Adept Gohan is focused on the single purpose of BEATING FACE.

I am going to try again with Blue Resourceful because I like the Piccolo stack and want to make it work.  Two issues:

1. I won't have any actual set 10 cards for a while and this build will require a lot of imagination and actual placeholder proxying

2. Blue physical beats STILL suffers anger issues. How will I level up?  I suppose I can be a tool and toss in an unleashed engine since blue rebuke is awesome.  Hm.  That would free up some space I suppose...would no longer need to use blue fear or other anger cards.  Yeah.  I'ma tool it up. But this leaves the very real possibility of being stuck on 1 for a while and that is NOT okay. Oh!  I could toss in Blue Dominance!

Grrr I wish I could get proxies faster.  My gohan deck will be even more crazy once I get Orange Bottle Drill and Devilish Sword Strike!

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I haven't had much time to scratch my ass, let alone test shit, but I have had time to build.

I changed my Namekian Restored Awakening Gohan to Enlightened. I made Red Ruthless Videl. I did write a list for Blue Resourceful Videl, but don't like it.

I'm working on Orange Adept Goten, Orange Combative No18(Villain), Saiyan Oppressive Kid Trunks, Red Energized No18(Hero), Black Mischievous No17 and Blue Resourceful Frieza.

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I've had lots of ideas, but not much time to build because work's been busy. However, I will probably be posting more in the deck section than in the past because I won't have many chances to test, so I figure why not share. Probably put something up in the next couple days.

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@ChangelingBard mentioned that Orange Combative works with Orange Examination Drill. Pair that with Orange Disaster Drill and all your Styled Physicals gain 'Raise your Anger 1. HIT: Raise your Anger 1.' and it has pretty darn good rebalancing after leveling as it can bring back one that combat and another the next.

I think there is most definitely an MPPV deck there, probably something much closer to what Red Enraged was intended to be, but can it match Saiyan Rampaging Trunks or Gohan?

Probably the crux of why I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest. Why would I when I could just play the Saiyan Rampaging Trunks I have now which is plenty fast?

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@Artificial Human I actually feel like that might be where Goten could really shine, with a mixed survival/MPPV Orange build that's just designed around quickly setting up necessary drills to hurtle up to MPPV while giving yourself decent defense. That said, I'm not sure if you'd want to do Combative Mastery over Retribution Mastery since Ret would always net Goten an extra drill to help more quickly set-up, but there's something to be said for the extra defense offered by Combative existing.

It's funny you bring up Rampaging Gohan though. That's actually probably my favorite deck pre-Set 10. My current schtick is just trying to figure out if Saiyan Oppressive Gohan is as good, since my old Rampaging Gohan was entirely based around the idea of making my opponent skip until I'm done leveling anyway, and then ducking out of combat with combat enders. So far, the loss of the on-hit anger gain and 4 anger required to level has actually hurt the deck more than you'd think (since you're on average needing 2-3 extra cards to get the level), but I'll continue editing to see if there's anything amazing there.

Oppressive Future Gohan could be neat, but he's probably got a better home in Namekian.

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1 hour ago, Artificial Human said:

Probably the crux of why I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest. Why would I when I could just play the Saiyan Rampaging Trunks I have now which is plenty fast?

Oppressive Trunks, as of now, is the best MPPV deck hands down. It is freakin bananas

Also Mischievous 17 is REALLY REEAALLYYYYY good.

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On 11/20/2017 at 1:00 PM, Thearbiter20x6 said:

I tried Black Conflict with the new Piccolo stack because of the obvious discard synergy.  I put it up against the ol' Orange Adept Gohan figuring piccolo would have so much stage gain that he could thwart physical beatdown.

...then I remembered why I love my Adept Gohan and watched as it refused to care about Piccolo's stupid garbage trash and proceeded to mop the floor with him.  My Black Conflict Piccolo was trying to be beatdown and control at the same time and doing neither particularly well.  Adept Gohan is focused on the single purpose of BEATING FACE.

I am going to try again with Blue Resourceful because I like the Piccolo stack and want to make it work.  Two issues:

1. I won't have any actual set 10 cards for a while and this build will require a lot of imagination and actual placeholder proxying

2. Blue physical beats STILL suffers anger issues. How will I level up?  I suppose I can be a tool and toss in an unleashed engine since blue rebuke is awesome.  Hm.  That would free up some space I suppose...would no longer need to use blue fear or other anger cards.  Yeah.  I'ma tool it up. But this leaves the very real possibility of being stuck on 1 for a while and that is NOT okay. Oh!  I could toss in Blue Dominance!

Grrr I wish I could get proxies faster.  My gohan deck will be even more crazy once I get Orange Bottle Drill and Devilish Sword Strike!

Blue pickles has probably the easiest time leveling (on paper) due to unleashed and dominance with the protection of the new set 10 drill (Performs a worthless attack making it searchable with new cards, but if you're namekian trait you can't be deleveled by opposing card effects)

I would 100% suggest going in on the unleashed/dominance engine.

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4 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

@ChangelingBard mentioned that Orange Combative works with Orange Examination Drill. Pair that with Orange Disaster Drill and all your Styled Physicals gain 'Raise your Anger 1. HIT: Raise your Anger 1.' and it has pretty darn good rebalancing after leveling as it can bring back one that combat and another the next.

I think there is most definitely an MPPV deck there, probably something much closer to what Red Enraged was intended to be, but can it match Saiyan Rampaging Trunks or Gohan?

Probably the crux of why I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest. Why would I when I could just play the Saiyan Rampaging Trunks I have now which is plenty fast?

In play testing Orange Ret Trunks beat out Rampaging Trunks and Gohan by at least 2-4 turns.  Unfortunately Goku exists in Blue.

As of the Examination Drill combo, it was more of an anti-MPPV thing.  Pretty oppressive if you can pull it off.

Speaking of Oppressive, I 100% believe @sh0ryu_repp4 when he says that Oppressive is a monster MPPV.  The biggest weakness of MPPV is that your opponent can react and even losing 1 anger at the wrong time is devastating.  Remove your opponents ability to do anything till you're done is game breaking for MPPV.

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6 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

Oppressive Trunks, as of now, is the best MPPV deck hands down. It is freakin bananas

Also Mischievous 17 is REALLY REEAALLYYYYY good.

I've been thinking about this a little bit, but when considering Oppressive Mastery, couldn't you take almost the exact same deck recipes, and apply them to Rampaging? It's not like Sword Skill is a new card, nor are any of the cards restrictively useful for Oppressive. Even the extra Anger gain from Oppressive isn't unique, since Rampaging offers similar levels of anger gain. This is probably more true for Gohan decks, since everything becomes styled, but like...

Well, okay, everything becomes a "Hit:" anger gain instead. So your opponent can block their way out of some of the anger you're gaining. But the same general note of "force the opponent to skip, end combat" can be used, and honestly should be used in Saiyan MPPV anyway (it's literally the only thing that made my Rampaging Gohan MPPV work pre-Set 10). Honestly, MPPV in general should use that strategy where possible (I'd argue everyone should).  And in theory, wouldn't the 4 anger to level up eventually match up to the same rapid hurtling towards MPPV that the opponent sure as sh*t can't stop?

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16 hours ago, Denithan said:

@Artificial Human I actually feel like that might be where Goten could really shine, with a mixed survival/MPPV Orange build that's just designed around quickly setting up necessary drills to hurtle up to MPPV while giving yourself decent defense. That said, I'm not sure if you'd want to do Combative Mastery over Retribution Mastery since Ret would always net Goten an extra drill to help more quickly set-up, but there's something to be said for the extra defense offered by Combative existing.

It's funny you bring up Rampaging Gohan though. That's actually probably my favorite deck pre-Set 10. My current schtick is just trying to figure out if Saiyan Oppressive Gohan is as good, since my old Rampaging Gohan was entirely based around the idea of making my opponent skip until I'm done leveling anyway, and then ducking out of combat with combat enders. So far, the loss of the on-hit anger gain and 4 anger required to level has actually hurt the deck more than you'd think (since you're on average needing 2-3 extra cards to get the level), but I'll continue editing to see if there's anything amazing there.

Oppressive Future Gohan could be neat, but he's probably got a better home in Namekian.

Yes retribution goten is the answer. I did something similar with ret broly (which I'm still convinced is one of if not the best deck of the last few sets, and I'm not sure why it didn't catch on more) which powers toward mppv and survival simultaneously. Goten would work the same but sacrifice some power (and board hate) for faster mppv. It'll need testing/tweaks, but I'll put up a list soon. His drill search on level up just gives so many options.

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16 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

Oppressive Trunks, as of now, is the best MPPV deck hands down. It is freakin bananas

Also Mischievous 17 is REALLY REEAALLYYYYY good.

I've been following Retro pretty closely on these two. While I think Control should have a place, I don't like how both of these create a situation where the game basically becomes solitaire and arguably worse than the old Black Devious Krillin deck. :/

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1 minute ago, Artificial Human said:

I've been following Retro pretty closely on these two. While I think Control should have a place, I don't like how both of these create a situation where the game basically becomes solitaire and arguably worse than the old Black Devious Krillin deck. :/

Agreed. Haven't played against OP Trunks yet, but if it turns out to be as bad as they say it could be a problem. Not because I believe it to be unbeatable, but because it promotes non-interaction which is supposed to be enemy #1 in this game. That's why they nerfed Namekian Knowledge way back in set 1 and a number of other changes. Ascension vegeta/trunks was frustrating enough to play against. If this is worse then there's going to be a lot of feel bads to go around.

 

Also posted Goten Rough Draft:

 

 

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I thought about it some more, and there's not even really an advantage with Oppressive > Rampaging in regards to Sword Skill. You still need to HIT to get the opponent to skip, which means Rampaging would give you the extra anger anyway. The only things you really gain are the ability to go for stages instead of anger (which you won't), the draw/discard at start of turn, the Rejuv, and the ability to rely on Freestyle cards that force skips to get anger. And the last one isn't even relevant if you look at Gohan MPPV instead of Trunks, and I daresay, Gohan has better MPPV tools in Gohan's Power Punch. Heck, it might not be that relevant overall?

I mean, I guess it turns all Styled attacks into a skip at start of turn? And honestly, if you're running Kid Trunks, I 100% think Oppressive is the better deal hands down. It works beautifully, and you have in-built skip to stop the opponent as well as the ability to draw into extra cards. I'd also say that rogue personalities like Broly and Nappa would probably do exceptionally well in Oppressive with unrelenting survival beat.
But Future Trunks? The more I think about it, the more I feel he'd probably do better elsewhere. Slam and Knee Bash aren't especially potent for Oppressive, and about the only HUGE play he has is his Defiant Level 3 being able to force skip and then end combat. Which I guess is insanely potent, given how you're gaining anger each time you do it and the opponent is unable to really stop you, but even that might operate better functionally in Rampaging since you can pull the same strategy. Especially given the lower anger needed to jump up to 4, which means less puzzle pieces need to be stalled out for.

 

What I find hilariously is in trying to test them against each-other, you can't really say which is better. Both are going to hit Level 4, and if you don't have an insane number of blocks on the ready to stop Sword Skill procing, both are probably going to hit MPPV. Heck, even the recipes between the two of them should only diverge on like, 3 cards. But outside of the draw and discard at start of turn, I cannot figure out how Oppressive Trunks would be any better in function than Rampaging. And I don't know if the draw + discard is worth more than the lowered anger cost?

 

EDIT: Thought about it some more, and I can see the point with the Level 3 as you can force skip to grab a combat ender, then force skip with any Saiyan style card, then end combat, so you get 2 anger and end. But this feels as dependent on combat enders as Rampaging does on Sword Skip, so I think this is going to need to be constantly revisited if and when the meta adapts to stop Trunks' combat ending.

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