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Thearbiter20x6

Let's talk: Oppressive Trunks

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     I've been hearing a lot about Saiyan Oppressive Trunks, definitely more than any of the other new cards from set 10.  My goal is to playtest against it using my "Big 3" decks so I can see what makes it tick.  I can read about it or whatever, but when it comes to card games, no learning experience is quite as good as a legit playtest experience (at least for me). 

     Here's what I figure the deck would use:

Trunks 1-4 (level 3 from evo, rest from Awakening)

Saiyan Oppressive Mastery

 

Physical Combat:

Trunks' Slam x 3

Trunks' Knee Bash x 3

Heroic Dashing Punch x 2

Devastating Blow x 3

Saiyan Gut Kick x 3

Saiyan Shattering Blow x 2

Saiyan Face Strike x 3

Saiyan Spin Kick x 3

Saiyan Body Blow x 3

Saiyan Reverse Catch x 3

Saiyan Leg catch x 3

 

Energy Combat:

Blinding Energy Move x 2

Saiyan Chest Blast x 3

Saiyan Energy Release x 3

Saiyan Energy Deflection x 3

 

Events:

Time is a Warrior's Tool x 1

Saiyan Sword Skill x 3

Saiyan Outrage x 3

 

Drills and Setups

Saiyan Inspection Drill x 3

Saiyan Enraged x 3

Saiyan Pre-Game x 2

Visiting the Past x 2

Earth Dragon Ball 7 x 1

     This is more or less a decent list yeah?  I just threw this together so I might have missed something important.  Please make suggestions and/or corrections because I want this to be as close to a competitive build as possible so I can play against it and really see what makes it tick. 

     From what I can tell Blinding Energy Move is HUGE.  That freaking level 3 can not only recycle it to infinity, but it gets an action skip out of it, denying you a chance to banish it from the discard, assuming you are even able to do so.  The deck seems rather light on endurance, though.

     I'm somewhat concerned because this deck could be extremely unfun to play against.  The mastery and concept itself are not terrible; it's the BEM recycling that seals the deal.  The last thing I want to do it watch them unload their hand only to end combat.  At least if this deck goes off the rails, making BEM BAU would be an easy fix. 

     Anyway, I'm sure many of you already have some experience with this deck, but I'll let you know what happens as each of my "Big 3" throw down against it.  One of them has a secret weapon that could potentially shut Trunks down so I am hoping it works. :P

EDIT: Could use Shoulder Slam x 3 to replace something. Good for the mirror match? Not that I plan to run this build.  If I'm going Oppressive, I'm going BEATS.

EDIT 2: Was going through my cards and realized I forgot Saiyan Spin Kick.  That's a no-brainer.  Oh crap.  I forgot about Chest Blast. Fixing...

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Okay.  Now I've seen it in action.

It is incredibly frustrating to play against.  Once Trunks hits 4 the game is essentially over.  He can enter, do some skips, use his power, done.  If he is at 3 and BEM is in his discard, you can't do anything to him without confrontation, anti-combat-end cards, or something along those lines.  Level 2 is your only real window for attack and he has a defense power!

It sometimes fizzles with draws and it indeed cannot take a beating very well, but it's mostly consistent.  Saiyan Pre-Game is HUGE, so huge that I am considering adding the event from Set 10 that makes them skip their first phase. 

Not sure how I feel about it right now.  Orange Adept Gohan struggles a little bit, but it really only needs one good combat.  My Red Ruthless Goku deck does okay as well, but it has lost a couple games now with only a few life cards in the enemy deck because Trunks level 4 BS combos (curse me for regenerating the right cards).

Trunks is obviously very vulnerable to ill-timed wall breakers, but with Trunks' Knee Bash they usually don't last TOO long.  

 

This wasn't what I was hoping for when I saw Saiyan Oppressive Mastery, though.  Making my opponent skip an action is fun; making them skip consistently until my hand is empty is not so fun.  Not fun to play or play against.  

I still want to try my Blue Tag Vegeta.   

EDIT: Only played one game with it but Blue Tag Vegeta did all right!  Trunks got to level 4 but ENERGIZED STRIKE FTW LOSER! Great opener against that deck.  Would probably run 3 of them now.

Also, SAIYAN PRE GAME GRRRRRRRRRR it seriously wins games.  Even if I initiate against the deck and have the PERFECT counter, doesn't matter.  Pre game keeps me from dropping anything until it is too late. I don't know why I thought it was 2 per deck.  Gonna add a third.

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I got to play against Oppressive Trunks today with Oppressive Broly.  What an interesting both players just skip a bunch of stuff while the other player gains anger game that was.  I thought I was about to lose with me Lv 3 Broly and 38 cards left and him Trunks Lv 4 and 33 cards left.  It was my turn to enter or not and I knew from looking at Trunks' power that I was going to have to enter and go all out because if he got his next turn he most likely would win on the spot.  I got super lucky and entered and he drew 0 blocks and ate 13s, 13s and 14s of damage back to back to back via skip effects and all of it was converted to life cards and won the game.  

 

But phew what an ugly match it is being on the receiving side of skip actions end combat 

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8 hours ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Okay.  Now I've seen it in action.

It is incredibly frustrating to play against.  Once Trunks hits 4 the game is essentially over.  He can enter, do some skips, use his power, done.  If he is at 3 and BEM is in his discard, you can't do anything to him without confrontation, anti-combat-end cards, or something along those lines.  Level 2 is your only real window for attack and he has a defense power!

It sometimes fizzles with draws and it indeed cannot take a beating very well, but it's mostly consistent.  Saiyan Pre-Game is HUGE, so huge that I am considering adding the event from Set 10 that makes them skip their first phase. 

Not sure how I feel about it right now.  Orange Adept Gohan struggles a little bit, but it really only needs one good combat.  My Red Ruthless Goku deck does okay as well, but it has lost a couple games now with only a few life cards in the enemy deck because Trunks level 4 BS combos (curse me for regenerating the right cards).

Trunks is obviously very vulnerable to ill-timed wall breakers, but with Trunks' Knee Bash they usually don't last TOO long.  

 

This wasn't what I was hoping for when I saw Saiyan Oppressive Mastery, though.  Making my opponent skip an action is fun; making them skip consistently until my hand is empty is not so fun.  Not fun to play or play against.  

I still want to try my Blue Tag Vegeta.   

EDIT: Only played one game with it but Blue Tag Vegeta did all right!  Trunks got to level 4 but ENERGIZED STRIKE FTW LOSER! Great opener against that deck.  Would probably run 3 of them now.

Also, SAIYAN PRE GAME GRRRRRRRRRR it seriously wins games.  Even if I initiate against the deck and have the PERFECT counter, doesn't matter.  Pre game keeps me from dropping anything until it is too late. I don't know why I thought it was 2 per deck.  Gonna add a third.

Yeah, I was gonna suggest a third pregame and the new event that skips. You could probably drop some of the extra blocks, since you want to be constantly attacking. 

 

So is your assessment that you just have to get lucky and catch trunks in a bad combat? If so that's more consistent than I was hoping.

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9 hours ago, v3rse said:

Yeah, I was gonna suggest a third pregame and the new event that skips. You could probably drop some of the extra blocks, since you want to be constantly attacking. 

 

So is your assessment that you just have to get lucky and catch trunks in a bad combat? If so that's more consistent than I was hoping.

lol sort of?  Either

1. Catch him with setups and the wrong type of block (switching out some blocks will make this more difficult but I think you're right and that's the direction I should take)

2. Just sit there, wait for him to do his thing, hope he can't end combat, and then unleash the furious fury and fire of my absurdly aggressive decks and just hope it's enough to kill him before he wins. xD (this works more than you would think lol)

Adept Gohan has it nice because of Orange Freezing Drill.  It shuts off outrage, time, and his level 2 power. The problem is that he can rarely get rid of the BEM.  Has to get lucky with damage and then hit them with a dev blow or something, but I could easily swap out my pulverize x 2 and an orange collision for 3 suppressive strike (prob doing that regardless). Although, my Adept Gohan runs so little defense that Saiyan Sword Skill gets freakin' ABUSED.  I have to let him crit to get that mess off.

Red Ruthless Goku actually won by MPPV once (I got a good laugh out of that).  All I gotta do with that deck is hit level 3 before he wins so I can do my stupid red double strike abuse. 

Tag Vegeta just kind of did his thing with extra beefy modified freestyle energy attacks, bypassing his level 2 defense.  Energized Strike is something I would even toss into Adept Gohan potentially if Oppressive Trunks became the new "10 of these minimum every tournament deck" because that seriously did good work against Saiyan Oppressive.

If I do take out blocks, Trunks should have more consistent hands, but even LESS endurance than before. That event "when entering" skip is golden, but that pretty much has to be the card you keep or it is just a vanilla styled attack.  Granted, it's good to toss out as your first move.

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18 hours ago, Linnell said:

I got to play against Oppressive Trunks today with Oppressive Broly.  What an interesting both players just skip a bunch of stuff while the other player gains anger game that was.  I thought I was about to lose with me Lv 3 Broly and 38 cards left and him Trunks Lv 4 and 33 cards left.  It was my turn to enter or not and I knew from looking at Trunks' power that I was going to have to enter and go all out because if he got his next turn he most likely would win on the spot.  I got super lucky and entered and he drew 0 blocks and ate 13s, 13s and 14s of damage back to back to back via skip effects and all of it was converted to life cards and won the game.  

 

But phew what an ugly match it is being on the receiving side of skip actions end combat 

Yup that's what tends to happen to him!  Once you catch him off guard, he takes it IN THE FACE.  It's such a short window of opportunity, though.  I can see Oppressive Trunks being a serious problem to all but the most AGGRESSIVE of decks.  The heck are control decks supposed to do?  Sit there and look cool while Trunks MPPVs out in three combats?  The only way to counter the anger gains is to use blocks that reduce anger, but those are surprisingly few unless you play blue.  I can't see any other MPPV deck even holding a candle to O. Trunks, which is also bad for the meta imo.  The MPPV strategy should not be limited to one deck.  Looking at you too, old school Ret Roshi. I see you looming.

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54 minutes ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

This is Trunks. Wall Breaker won't do diddly.

Yup.  Although a well timed WB can still be devastating if Trunks happens to get unlucky with the ol' knee bash.  In one of my playtesting games Adept Gohan wall breakered that bastard at level one and the poor guy was stuck there all game getting his face smashed (that's my boy!).

If it becomes a BIG problem I'll run energized strike, too.  I'm CRAZY, YO.  I'll do it.

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I haven't played too much with Set 10 yet with the holidays and all. Hope to fix that this week. But I feel like the mastery forces your opponent to enter in on you otherwise when you enter on them, they're screwed. I like that aspect of it because the Styles I've mainly played like Saiyan would get wrecked against decks with tons of board. And while I love this game a lot of the times, it was just drop non-combats and pass and wait for answers on my end. Very boring.

Also, feel like DBZ players have never put more than 2-4 anger lowering cards in their decks in. There are a lot of good ones now so people should be running them especially blocks that lower anger.

Lastly, probably the easiest fix would be to make Blinding BAU or make Trunks level 3 only grab styled attacks.

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45 minutes ago, Hellsfire said:

Also, feel like DBZ players have never put more than 2-4 anger lowering cards in their decks in. There are a lot of good ones now so people should be running them especially blocks that lower anger.

This is true. I think many DBZ players, myself included, are too focused on pushing their game state over dealing with the opponent's game state. From myself, I feel it's more I see and feel my game state growing, I don't feel my opponent's being held back. It doesn't feel as advantageous as it can be.

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Hellsfire is right, but it's something I never understood.  No matter what game I play, my strategy always seems to boil down to, "I'll just disrupt my opponent's strategy to the point where they cannot function properly."  This can get me in trouble if I am facing an opponent that is not relying on anything in particular (hard to be disruptive if there is nothing to disrupt).

That's why I rock Orange Freezing Drill.  Time, Hybrid Defense, other event blocks...people just LOVE those.  So I'll just shut them off.  How about THAT?

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On 11/27/2017 at 7:03 PM, Hellsfire said:

I haven't played too much with Set 10 yet with the holidays and all. Hope to fix that this week. But I feel like the mastery forces your opponent to enter in on you otherwise when you enter on them, they're screwed. I like that aspect of it because the Styles I've mainly played like Saiyan would get wrecked against decks with tons of board. And while I love this game a lot of the times, it was just drop non-combats and pass and wait for answers on my end. Very boring.

Also, feel like DBZ players have never put more than 2-4 anger lowering cards in their decks in. There are a lot of good ones now so people should be running them especially blocks that lower anger.

Lastly, probably the easiest fix would be to make Blinding BAU or make Trunks level 3 only grab styled attacks.

Nah. They'll just ban BEM and make a reprint with a trait requirement. 

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I used to play L5R competitively back in the day, and one thing I learned from it was that Americans played more aggressively and focused on their own win condition. Europeans ran a lot more meta cards and focused on stopping their opponent from winning. Also seen it in other games. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

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16 hours ago, Hellsfire said:

I used to play L5R competitively back in the day, and one thing I learned from it was that Americans played more aggressively and focused on their own win condition. Europeans ran a lot more meta cards and focused on stopping their opponent from winning. Also seen it in other games. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

Might be.  Even though I like to counter my opponents' strategies, I consider myself a VERY aggressive gamer (playstyle-wise, not RAWR SO ANGRY AND SALTY).  I almost always play aggro decks because I think they are FUN.  In fighting games, I GET IN THERE and start punching!  When I play Splatoon, I want to be on the front lines and IN THEIR FACE.

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Got a question for you guys.  It seems clear but if mathematics and Panini Z have taught me anything, it is that intuition isn't always correct.

So say ol' Trunks is being the jerk he is and has Saiyan Sword Skill attached.  Oppressive Mastery, of course. He uses Blinding Energy Move and it hits.  BEM states that combat ends "at the beginning of the next action." Since it hit me, I would need to skip my next action.  In my playtesting, I have been giving Trunks 1 anger after I skip from the BEM because the beginning of the NEXT action is the beginning of TRUNKS' action since mine was skipped.

This seems logical but again.....

Am I correct here or does the "beginning of the next action" check happen before skips are considered or some jank like that?  Sucks that he gets an anger from being a combat-ending coward...

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52 minutes ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

Got a question for you guys.  It seems clear but if mathematics and Panini Z have taught me anything, it is that intuition isn't always correct.

So say ol' Trunks is being the jerk he is and has Saiyan Sword Skill attached.  Oppressive Mastery, of course. He uses Blinding Energy Move and it hits.  BEM states that combat ends "at the beginning of the next action." Since it hit me, I would need to skip my next action.  In my playtesting, I have been giving Trunks 1 anger after I skip from the BEM because the beginning of the NEXT action is the beginning of TRUNKS' action since mine was skipped.

This seems logical but again.....

Am I correct here or does the "beginning of the next action" check happen before skips are considered or some jank like that?  Sucks that he gets an anger from being a combat-ending coward...

Sounds right to me. The action is skipped so there's no beginning of an action until it's back to trunks. He should get the anger. Lame.

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UPDATE:

I can usually handle Trunks Oppressive, but if that bastard gets really lucky draws it's near impossible to do anything about it.

At this point I am going to put Earth Dragon Ball 5 in my deck.  It is CRUCIAL to be able to banish Time and BEM from his discard, ESPECIALLY BEM.  The problem is, if he is packing Saiyan Pre-Game or the event, you won't be able to do anything EVEN if you initiate.  A smart player will use his level 3 power first, grab the BEM and force a skip, then do whatever his hand will allow while making you skip before finishing with his BEM, which goes back to the discard to rinse and repeat if he did not manage to hit 4.  And if he did hit 4, well, you better hope he draws total garbage trash and you are able to enter on him and finish him off THAT turn, because if he enter on you at level 4, you LOSE.

And you know what's hilarious?  I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE EARTH DRAGON BALL 5.  I used to sell extra playsets of dragonballs after buying my boxes and for whatever reason I pulled way less EDB5's.  I got greedy and sold my last one in a playset.  The only one on ebay is a $2 foil but I would rather just buy 3-4 non foil ones. :( Earth Dragon Ball 5 is one of the few cards in the game (the only one?) that allows you to banish cards from your opponent's discard pile without having to enter/be in combat.  TBH I think more cards that do this are needed.

I think everybody not running Namek Dragon Balls should chuck in an EDB5 if they are worried about O Trunks.  Banishing those BEM LITERALLY changes the outcome of the game. 

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On 11/30/2017 at 8:33 PM, Thearbiter20x6 said:

UPDATE:

I can usually handle Trunks Oppressive, but if that bastard gets really lucky draws it's near impossible to do anything about it.

At this point I am going to put Earth Dragon Ball 5 in my deck.  It is CRUCIAL to be able to banish Time and BEM from his discard, ESPECIALLY BEM.  The problem is, if he is packing Saiyan Pre-Game or the event, you won't be able to do anything EVEN if you initiate.  A smart player will use his level 3 power first, grab the BEM and force a skip, then do whatever his hand will allow while making you skip before finishing with his BEM, which goes back to the discard to rinse and repeat if he did not manage to hit 4.  And if he did hit 4, well, you better hope he draws total garbage trash and you are able to enter on him and finish him off THAT turn, because if he enter on you at level 4, you LOSE.

And you know what's hilarious?  I DON'T HAVE A SINGLE EARTH DRAGON BALL 5.  I used to sell extra playsets of dragonballs after buying my boxes and for whatever reason I pulled way less EDB5's.  I got greedy and sold my last one in a playset.  The only one on ebay is a $2 foil but I would rather just buy 3-4 non foil ones. :( Earth Dragon Ball 5 is one of the few cards in the game (the only one?) that allows you to banish cards from your opponent's discard pile without having to enter/be in combat.  TBH I think more cards that do this are needed.

I think everybody not running Namek Dragon Balls should chuck in an EDB5 if they are worried about O Trunks.  Banishing those BEM LITERALLY changes the outcome of the game. 

EDB 7 is one of my favorite cards played in a lot of decks so 5 will set nicely with it. On another note I can probably send you a EDB5 for free. PM me.

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10 hours ago, Majin Goo said:

EDB 7 is one of my favorite cards played in a lot of decks so 5 will set nicely with it. On another note I can probably send you a EDB5 for free. PM me.

Thank you for offering, but I tossed somebody a trivial amount of money for 4 of them and they should be inbound as of today.  Extras are good because if there's one mechanic in the game that I can't get enough of, it's DISCARD PILE HATE. 

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