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With the recent 'announcement' that Fan Z will not touch GT, very likely the entirety of Dragon Ball or characters like Bulma for really flimsy reasons, I started tossing around the idea of making my own. I'm not the first, I'm not the last, but I have a better proposition I want to put to all of you. Why don't we do our own 'expansion' to Fan Z? Just enough to cover the major players of Ball and GT, while including the MPs they won't touch.

We propose ideas, test them individually, come back with our data and iron out the design. No big set to release, just MP by MP, with their Named Cards and Allies where appropriate. A very lax project that will tackle each MP as a member wants to play them. No defined schedule and the project is open to any regular to the board or actual Fan Z designers that want to chime in with designs they can't make within the constraints of Fan Z.

Here are what I feel the project should cover:

Dragon Ball Top Tier
Bulma (Dragon Ball)
Yamcha (Dragon Ball)
Emperor Pilaf (Dragon Ball)
General Blue (Dragon Ball)
Demon King Piccolo (Dragon Ball)
Chi-Chi (Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z)
Pan (Dragon Ball GT)
Goku (Dragon Ball GT)
Vegeta (Dragon Ball GT)
SS4 Gogeta (Dragon Ball GT)
Baby/Baby Vegeta (Dragon Ball GT)
Super Android 17 (Dragon Ball GT)
Omega Shenron (Dragon Ball GT)
Majuub (Dragon Ball GT)

I think this covers the main things people would want to play from the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT. Yamcha is really only here because I know people want Wolf Fang Fist and the current crop of Yamcha MPs wouldn't work with it as it's a physical attack. SS4 Gogeta can probably wait till Fan Z hits him as he will be interchangeable with theirs and could probably get by with only being a Level 4.

As for ideas, I could see Bulma, Pilaf and Pan all being Dragon Ball decks of some sort, Pilaf having Mai and Shu as allies, Pan having Giru, GT Trunks and GT Goku. Chichi being an Anger/Saiyan Ally/Physical Beats type deck. King Piccolo as some type of anti-Dragon Ball deck. Feel free to suggest ideas. :)

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I'm all for fan creations. Whether this goes very far or not. You will probably need someone to mock up the visuals though. The difficulty will probably lie in getting adequate testing considering most of us don't see each other in person.

 

Some of those you listed always seemed like they could get by on individual levels for me. For example GT trunks could just be a new level 1. GT vegeta could just be a new 1 (mustache) and 4 (ss4). Though I suppose they could be expanded.

 

I guess I'm more interested in designing  the GT characters than the DB ones myself.

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10 minutes ago, v3rse said:

I'm all for fan creations. Whether this goes very far or not. You will probably need someone to mock up the visuals though. The difficulty will probably lie in getting adequate testing considering most of us don't see each other in person.

 

Got a handle on the graphics. Haven't posted a 'normal' card yet, but I have the template to make them. :)

I understand the difficulty of testing though, but I did take it upon myself to assume we all at least have the ability to play with our own friends, giving the opportunity to gain data and conference on them here.

12 minutes ago, v3rse said:

Some of those you listed always seemed like they could get by on individual levels for me. For example GT trunks could just be a new level 1. GT vegeta could just be a new 1 (mustache) and 4 (ss4). Though I suppose they could be expanded.

I see the arguments for both. Hell, I don't even personally think the new 1 for Vegeta is entirely necessary and Trunks could be a new Lv4 for Kid Trunks. However, I think the Trunks thing gets very, very confusing because he's not 'Kid' Trunks anymore, nor is he Future Trunks. He's just Trunks. That thing with Panini not labeling 'Future' Trunks as such is biting us in the ass here.

As to not tread on further FanZ or Super, I actually wonder if the GT stacks should be their own thing, as the Future ones are in FanZ. It's not like it's even canon now either. :/

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I agree that some of them probably don't need a full stuck, such as Trunks, or maybe even Vegeta. I see Goku having a full stack simply because he has so many different appearances such as base, ssj1, ssj3, ssj4. I'm curious if you plan on doing a full ssj4 Gogeta stack or just making alternate L3 and L4 for the Gogeta stack FanZ will make eventually? He only had like five minutes of screen time (just like ssj1 Gogeta) so it would be kind of weird, although now that I stated it, I guess they are going to have to do that for SSJ1 Gogeta.

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I'd be down to help test here and there, but since i recently moved away from my normal play group, it'd likely need to be by proxy on OCTGN or something.

On the topic of Trunks (GT), I actually think he should be called Trunks (GT) by name and have a parenthetical either letting him intermix with Kid Trunks (treated as also having the same name for the sake of deck building/MP Levels), or if you want to do a full stack, give him a parenthetical letting him use Kid Trunks' named cards.

The big issue in trying to work with GT Trunks also comes from GT itself, imo, since he was kind of needlessly molded to imitate Future Trunks in fighting style, attacks and swordplay where he would logically have not developed most of these things. He was raised and trained by Vegeta directly, and it's highly possible that Future Trunks may have learned his swordplay off of Future Gohan (who trained with a sword as a kid, with Piccolo). Honestly, GT Trunks just being Future Trunks but a bit more nervous bothered me a whole lot more than Super Trunks magically knowing Vegeta's attacks (which also bothered me).

This all said, I won't lie, the idea of Super Saiyan 4 being the Level 4 of Gogeta's MP stack makes me WAY too happy. I think we should look at a normal Uub stack to evole into Majuub though, or even save Majuub as a new Level 4 with GT Uub being his Level 3.

Mechanically, I think Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta should be unable to win by MPPV, and should revert back to his Level 1 at the end of the turn he shows up. To balance that though, you may need to drop in a named card that helps him jump Levels, or give him allies that specifically help him to jump up. We've actually seen somewhat similar in Gohan's named cards already, so this shouldn't be too hard to work out card text wise. As for Majuub, I rather like the idea of him playing off of banishing Majin cards from his hand facedown to banish top and draw, and then being able to Once Per Turn grab a block from his Banished Zone and play it. Maybe not exactly that, but something that captures the unusual and bizarre nature of a Majin's powers, combined with the concentrated fighting style of Uub. In effect though, all this would do is give him extra hand filtering and a personality power to block, neither of which are unheard of at this point.

Super 17 should definitely not be his own stack, but a new Level 3/4. If you want to get really weird, you could easily make a new Android card that attaches an Android ally to your MP stack, and then make Hell Fighter 17 either greatly enhance Anger Gain while attached, or straight up help you skip up to the new Level. This said, I'd kind of like to see Super 17 have a Personality Power that stops him from advancing level if we make him a level 3. Why? Because it'd be weird and different, and I need weird and different in my card games damn it.

For Baby, I think the name should just be Baby and give him the parenthetical of letting him play "Baby" allies, and ONLY Baby allies (standard 1 copy of each though). Then have his first 3 Levels be entirely about pulling Baby allies to the field, whose powers should mostly reflect raising the MP's Power Level (imo, do what you will), and his Level 4 can nuke the hell out of the opponent's deck via. Ally Destruction (ala. Cell).

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Here's my take on Baby. He's actually not my favorite villain, but these ideas came to me easily.

 

Lv 1

Baby

Emerged

Pic: Infant form

D

C

C

C

C

C

C

C

B

A

0

PUR: 4

Constant: Whenever an ally enters play under your control raise your anger 1 level.

Power: Take control of an opponent’s ally in play. Rejuvenate 3.

 

 

Lv 2

Baby

Tuffle’s Revenge

Pic: Teen Form

E

E

D

D

C

C

C

C

B

A

0

PUR: 4

Constant: Your physical attacks do +2 power stages of damage.

Power: Physical Attack

Take control of an opponent’s ally in play. Rejuvenate 1. You may set your MP’s power level to 1 power stage above 0.

Damage: 3 power stages

 

 

Lv 3

Baby

Vegeta Possessed

Pic: Super Baby Vegeta 2

F

F

F

E

D

D

C

C

C

A

0

PUR: 5

Constant: Your allies can perform actions regardless of your current power level.

Power: Physical Attack

You may banish up to 2 allies you control to gain 1 anger for each ally banished. Banish 3 cards from your opponent’s discard pile.

Damage: AT+5 power stages

 

 

Lv 4

Baby

Golden Oozaru

Pic: Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta

F

F

F

F

E

E

D

D

D

A

0

PUR: 6

(When you reach this level you may destroy up to 2 set ups, drills, or attached cards in play)

Constant: Your opponent’s attacks deal -2 power stages and -1 life card of damage.

Power: Physical Attack

Destroy all allies in play. If 2 or more allies were destroyed in this way this attack is unblockable.

Damage: AT+7 power stages

 

 

Baby’s Energy Absorption

Event

Endurance: 1

Raise your MP to its highest power stage. Choose a personality your opponent controls to lose X power stages where X= the number of power stages your MP gained from this effect. If your opponent did not discard life cards from this effect search your life deck or discard pile for an ally with “Baby” in the title and place it into play at full power.

(Banish after use)

 

 

Baby’s Revenge Death Ball

Energy Combat

Endurance: 2

Energy attack costing 3 power stages

This attack does +1 life card of damage for each ally you control. If stopped you may gain 3 power stages.

Damage: 4 life cards

Hit: Banish this card after use instead.

(Rejuvenate after use)

 

 

Baby Gohan

Possessed

Villain Ally

F

E

D

D

C

C

C

C

B

A

0

PUR: 1

Constant: Whenever a player raises his anger, change that amount to 1.

Power: Physical attack

Damage: 2 power stages

 

 

Baby Goten

Possessed

Villain Ally

E

E

D

D

C

C

C

C

B

A

0

PUR: 1

Power: Physical attack

Damage: 2 power stages

Hit: Search your life deck for a styled drill and place it into play.

 

 

Baby Bulma

Possessed Genius

Villain Ally

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

0

PUR: 1

(If your MP is Baby or Vegeta you may play this card from your hand as an action to gain 2 anger and draw a card)

Constant: When Bulma enters play attach a card from any discard pile to her. Cards with that title cannot be played.

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11 hours ago, Denithan said:

Super 17 should definitely not be his own stack, but a new Level 3/4. If you want to get really weird, you could easily make a new Android card that attaches an Android ally to your MP stack, and then make Hell Fighter 17 either greatly enhance Anger Gain while attached, or straight up help you skip up to the new Level. This said, I'd kind of like to see Super 17 have a Personality Power that stops him from advancing level if we make him a level 3. Why? Because it'd be weird and different, and I need weird and different in my card games damn it.

 

11 hours ago, Denithan said:

I think we should look at a normal Uub stack to evole into Majuub though, or even save Majuub as a new Level 4 with GT Uub being his Level 3.
 

Fusions in FanZ are their own entity. Joey has already stated as much.

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@Artificial Human The distinction here for me is between full fusions, and more upgrades.

For example, I'd liken Super 17's transformation to more of an upgrade on Hell Fighter 17 in the same vein as Cell upgrades through the absorption of Androids. Likewise with Majuub, Uub is the singular entity in control of that body. Majin Buu exists somewhere in there, definitely, but Uub is the one who is controlling what they do, how they fight, how they use their powers. This isn't a fused personality like with Gotenks, Gogeta, or Vegito, this is one of the two fighters taking on the powers of the other and ascending to a higher form. Shit, the single show of Android 17 having any control left of Super 17's body was in that he chose how he died. Otherwise, 17 had all control of himself ripped from him by HF17 PRIOR to fusing, and he didn't get it back. This isn't a fusion, on either side, this is flat out absorption. In my mind, if we call this fusion, we'd need to call Super Buu and all his absorbed forms a fusion, as well as Cell and his different states a fusion. Technically, they are, but they're still distinct from how Dragon Ball does fusions xD

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Not that there's a way to distinguish it in the current game, but the logic behind Majuub and Super 17 applies to Piccolo as well. If Piccolo isn't considered a fusion and I doubt he'll be considered as such when fusions become a thing, Majuub and Super 17 shouldn't be either.

It'd also be less work to design half or less of a stack over a full one should this concept take off.

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22 minutes ago, cytorak said:

Thinking about powers, is power creep so entrenched in the game to require multiple powers (of various types) per MP level?

It seems to be par for the course nowadays. With my take on baby above I was shooting for card power on par with set 10. Of course his actual power level brackets had to be slightly higher, so that may make him a little more powerful than otherwise. 

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PICCOLO

Piccolo goes both ways. Piccolo Lv4 from Premier is already titled 'Fused'. The episode where Piccolo fuses with Nail and the episode where Piccolo fuses with Kami both follow the naming conventions of the Saiyan Fusions first appearance, using the word 'Birth' in the title. But at the same time, the Manga explicitly calls Nail a "Power Up", while Kami is a "Union". Either way, it's properly titled 'Assimilation'.

-

SUPER ANDROID No17

The Japanese dialog for Super 17's fusion is a bit, odd. Gero basically says 17 is incomplete, including his personality, and Hell 17 completes him, then goes with the idea 17 is reborn as Super 17. He says they 'become one', not one absorbs the other.

 

Quote

Doctor Gero: "Yes. Originally, No.17 was supposed to have had tremendous power, greater than even Cell's. However..." [ ] "But, because I was unable to completely erase the feelings he had from when he was human, he hated me, after I had rebuilt him. He was an imperfect, unsuccessful creation."

Doctor Gero: "However...this additional No.17 will turn that other, imperfect one into his perfect form. When the two No.17s in that world and the Next World become one, all of the parts within his body will become perfected, and he will become an unprecedented, final weapon, with dominating hidden power!"

Doctor Gero: "Listen up! When this world's and the Next World's two No.17s become one, all of the systems within their bodies will become perfect, and No.17 will be reborn as the mightiest, ultimate Artificial Human!"

 

The Wiki, as unreliable as it may be due to the nature of a Wiki, lists 17+17 under 'Machine Mutant Fusion', as Hell 17 is a Machine Mutant like Rildo and Myuu. 13+14+15 is under Absorption btw, like Cell, Boo and even Oob.

-

MAJOOB

Majoob is arguably the same thing as 'Kamiccolo', two separated beings becoming one again. But at the same time, 'Mr Boo' isn't really Majin Boo, it's the Grand Supreme Kai with aspects of Majin Boo, while Oob is the reincarnation of the pure original form of Majin Boo. The logic the wikia goes with is sound, it's technically an absorption when you consider what Oob and Mr Boo really are.

 

@v3rse

I got the renders for Baby you requested. I'll get images for the allies when I get the chance and mock up all the cards.

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@Artificial Human It's also probably worth noting that Dr. Myuu did betray Gero at the time, and ensured that Super 17 became a Machine Mutant as opposed to an Artificial Human at the end (this point is explicit). This kind of implies, while not explicit, that Hell Fighter 17 took over most of Android 17 and used his systems to "perfect" his own since fusion would normally presume a more mixed nature than one mostly just overtaking the other.

Ultimately, with 17, I don't think there's a huge argument for Super 17 being it's own stack entirely. You'd more be looking at the argument of either Hell Fighter 17 turning into Super 17, or making it new levels in a 17 stack. More reasonably, Hell Fighter 17 should get a stack that changes up and A17 should probably get a new ally.

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On 11/29/2017 at 5:02 AM, Artificial Human said:

Dragon Ball Top Tier

Bulma (Dragon Ball)
Yamcha (Dragon Ball)
Emperor Pilaf (Dragon Ball)
General Blue (Dragon Ball)
Demon King Piccolo (Dragon Ball)
Chi-Chi (Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z)

We need Grandpa Gohan |:
And maybe Fortuneteller Baba, who could probably work quite well as an ally MP.
And maybe Tien's original master, though we do have Tao already.

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24 minutes ago, Stryyder said:

My opinion has always been, and continues to be....FUCK gt.

that is all, proceed.

Honestly the story ideas and a lot of the art design was pretty good, but everything was poorly executed and the writing was so bad/nonsensical that it ruined it. I still like some of the character designs though (which is all you really need to base an MP on). Otherwise yeah, fuck GT. But to be fair a lot of the movies are as bad or worse and we're still covering all of those.

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