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Card Slinger J

Are Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games Dying?

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The biggest problem with Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games nowadays is due to oversaturation of product getting released that ends up creating wallet fatigue for players who are struggling to keep up. More players are opening up their own local game stores to compete against others with better competitive pricing, while the online / singles market continues to make it more difficult for local game stores to make money off of sealed product. The long term outlook of the consumer base is in question here since younger players don't have as much of a desire to get into Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games like the previous generation did in the early 2000's.

Older players on the other hand don't have as much time to play Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games anymore and with the lack of new blood from younger players to keep the gaming genre going eventually the market is going to shrink. I think we're already starting to see that happen with the push for "Digital Card Games" like Hearthstone and Shadowverse where a lot of gaming companies nowadays are trying to push this false narrative that "Digital Card Games" aren't Video Games when they're the exact same thing. It doesn't offer the same experience you get from playing a Physical Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game at your local game store.

Did you know that over the last 3 years, MTG has lost over 40% of it's player base compared to Yu-Gi-Oh! which lost over 35% of it's player base recently? In MTG, player attendance for both Standard and Modern have plummeted since it's become financially impossible to build a consistent tournament deck without getting financially hurt from card/deck bannings that make or break the format(s) for them. EDH/Commander has been found as a cheap and affordable replacement but ultimately offers nothing for competitive players due to it's nature of being a casual format first and foremost.

Yu-Gi-Oh! has gotten to a point where you literally win on the 1st or 2nd turn without your opponent getting a turn or a chance to respond. As for Bushiroad's Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games there's already a separate thread to discuss them so I won't get into too much detail about what the current state of the meta is and where they're going. Most of the players at my locals who used to play BuddyFight have pretty much already moved onto Dragon Ball Super CCG. Final Fantasy TCG I rarely see played at my locals with only a few friends of mine that play it at other local game stores that hold events. Pokémon TCG I've pretty much been on hiatus so feel free to fill me in on it.

Tell me what you guys think.

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I've noticed this too. There are some reasonable explanations for each game though.

Magic - Poor design philosophies, poor card quality, too much politics.
YGO - Introduced Link, pandered to nostalgia while producing a game nothing like Duel Monsters.
Vanguard - Outrageously expensive now.
Buddyfight - It was never big.
Final Fantasy - Seemed to just flounder after the big hype.

Pokemon seems fine. DBS seems quite strong.

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Wallet fatigue is only due to the terrible business model. Less people are playing? Give them an attractive reason to give you their money.

It's less about oversaturation and more about competition. The problem is TCGs/CCGs aren't attempting a race to the bottom. I know that phrase can have a negative connotation but in what significant way is Yu-Gi-Oh! trying to outdo Magic? Or insert any other TCG/CCG there. These companies are perfectly happy continuing as they are because they're incompetent and overconfident that people will keep paying into it and any losses will magically disappear over time.

I've praised Dragon Ball Super's first set many times here for being quite generous in their rarity counts/distribution. There's some stinkers in the Super Rares, but you'd be hard pressed to go broke playing the game back in set 1 when it came to set singles. All that good will they built thrown out the window with a disgusting amount of promos and set 2's horrendous rarity counts. They're now no different than any other card game. "You were the chosen one. It was said that you would destroy the abusive model, not join them. Bring balance to the hobby... not leave it in darkness."

If these companies are failing, they need to make a major change to be more inclusive. If they keep doing the same antiquated nonsense, they're doomed to fail and deserve it. Yu-Gi-Oh! as a game is too far gone. Other than making the game cheap to play without relying on belated reprints, it would need a reboot with competent card/game design. Dragon Ball Super can course correct but I doubt they will. Set 1 was bait and short of underestimating set 1 sales, set 2 was all according to keikaku. Pokemon's doing fine but their packs are inherently more of a ripoff as the commons are pure garbage. You're not even buying a pack of ten cards with all those worthless basic Pokemon. Bushiroad, haw.

These companies  just need to do some self reflection and do the right thing. Spoilers: They won't.

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I don't necessarily think that Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games are a terrible business model when nobody foresaw the kind of impact it would have within the digital age as the "trading" aspect of the gaming genre has already lost it's meaning in favor of purchasing card singles online while the "collectible" aspect hasn't. Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro knows that If MTG fails so does every other Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game currently in circulation right now as they're the bedrock of the industry in much the same way Nintendo is within the Video Game Industry.

Most local game stores make the majority of their revenue off of MTG compared to other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games because it sells more product off shelves and without them there would be no place left to play let alone host or sanction events. It'd be like the rapid decline of Amusement Arcades in the late 90's and early to mid 2000's due to next-gen consoles. It's almost as If gaming culture itself nowadays doesn't want us to actively socialize with anyone out in public anymore because technology has made us more anti-social by being stuck in our own echo chambers while giving off the illusion that it isn't.

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To be honest, I don't think CCGs/TCGs are falling out of favor. I think we're just seeing an evolution and departure from the market that we grew up with, and dealt with. The big 3 are starting to crack at the seams, breaking underneath the weight of their own design philosophies and their willingness to turn away from older players while continuing to make games more complicated. I've said elsewhere that if you make your game too complicated, you kill the ability to build new audiences. We've seen this with both MtG and YGO now, but what makes matters significantly worse is that they've both long since branded themselves as the "complex, adult card game." Even were MtG to rotate out the more complicated mechanics now, and try a return to basics, it would only act to disenfranchise their current playerbase who enjoy the status quo and complexity of the game. These two have started down a road they can't back out of without a lot of effort, and doing so would be short-term financial suicide (but at this juncture, neither product has much long-term hope elsewise).

To go for an example, Duel Links is actually an incredibly popular way to play Yu-Gi-Oh! now and is starting to make rifts and ground where the physical card game cannot. This is because the game is still fairly simple and straight forward, and while it captures nostalgia for a lot of people, I know just as many people for whom it was actually their introduction to the Yu-Gi-Oh! card game. It captures the old spirit of Duel Monsters, both from DM and GX, and even with modern cards, archetypes and fusions, the limited format allows for much greater simplicity and a more relaxed easing into the game. If Konami was smart, they would angle this into real world sales and try their hardest to angle this playerbase into a real reception, as at present, Duel Links does not play at all like the modern game. But they also can't without angering all the current competitive players, who are genuinely here for the 5 minute plays that fill your board with 5 monsters with 1 card. And this has almost nothing to do with it being a digital card game either, although it does make things substantially easier to engage with. The reason we're enjoying this Yu-Gi-Oh! format isn't because it's a digital version of the real game, but because it's a callback to what the game was and should be.

But back to my point about it being an evolution and departure of the market, the cracks in the seams of those 2 specifically are creating a space for a lot of smaller developers to jump into and try to angle their product through. This is where the current, insanely huge wave of smaller CGs is coming from, as they try to assume the role as a member of the next big 3. To put it into video game terms, remember when Sega crashed? Or Atari's struggles when the home console first really picked up?
We're effectively experiencing the same era in card games. The industry isn't dead, or dying, but changing, and we're currently just waiting for the next major card game to take to the skies.

Dragon Ball Super has nearly managed it too, but I feel that it handicuffed itself from the start by restricting it's IP to just Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball has very little to do with the mechanics of the game, and the power system certainly isn't derived from the IP, so it was entirely possible for them to turn it into a "Jump Superstars TCG," with the opening set being DBS and expanding outwards. This is something MetaX promised to do, but honestly, it doesn't have the backing or the power to do so. And it IS something that UFS did, and despite the overcomplicated mess that is, that game actually has an insanely loyal following. The reason why this is important though is because Dragon Ball isn't eternal, and by immediately associating your game with JUST Dragon Ball, you guarantee the limited lifespan of your product.
The next point is price. As pointed out, Dragon Ball Super had a great opening, nothing was going to set you back too hard, and it was easy to get into the game. The important cards weren't too hard to get ahold of, and it was pretty reasonable. Hell, this is the reason Pokemon is still a popular game. Competitive decks are insanely cheap compared to the contemporaries and competition, meaning that it fits a niche of being affordable to younger audiences, but also reasonable for older audiences. Of the Big 3, Pokemon is definitely the one doing the best as they mindfully advance their game and add mechanics. If it doesn't work, it doesn't come back in the next rotation. You don't double down.

Vanguard also tried to do this, but they mistimed it as YGO was still going strong, and now they've made things too powerful. The biggest issue with the game isn't just price, but power-creep. We've now entered an age where the only decks that tend to see more than the first stride are hard control decks/resource decks. Who the hell wants to get into it when every other stride has 3 paragraphs of skills and can be summarized as "I win"? If you don't have any background in the game, it is way too much information to take in.

We, the players, stand at the precipice of the next age of card games, and horrifyingly enough, we need to elect whose going to have a big name in that era. Right now, digital card games are having the easiest time of it because of how easily they can reach audiences, but at the end of the day, they can't take the mantle.

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I started playing Magic over 20 years ago, somewhere around 1995.  At that point, it was JUST magic.  1997 brought Pokémon and YuGiOh in 1999.  When 2000 came around the floodgates opened.  EVERYONE got into the business.  if there was an IP in the early 2000s that was marketable they had a game.  Some had staying power for a couple years like DBZ, YYH, Magi Nation, .hack.  Others just dropped a set and bailed or stayed in the shadows with a small but dedicated base.  This all came to a head toward the middle/late 2000s.  Games just started failing.  Fewer events, fewer games, even the established games had to work harder with bigger gimmicks to stay relevant, now that online gaming was becoming a thing and people were flocking to game consoles.  Jump to the 2010s and things began to stabilize.  The "big 3" were still around and JCCGs like Vanguard and Weiss Schwarz were entering the scene.  Heroclix revamped their core and stuck around.  PanZ resurged.  It's pretty much like any big thing like this, a small start, a huge boom when people realized it was popular leading to an oversaturation crash and at this point we're on the upswing of a plateau.  People still enjoy the games, most titles have a dedicated base.  We're not gaining mass numbers of new players, but attendance is still there.  The biggest problem we have now is sales.  Whereas this hobby started as a "trading card" offshoot, it has now turned into something more akin to a stock market.  Players aren't buying to collect, they are buying to turn a profit.  buying collections to flip, starting their own ".com" to undercut the local market with online sales, make an easy buck because players are going to buy.  Hence why some companies are switching to a "brick and mortar only" sales model.  While this is feesable for larger games like MTG, fledgling games like DBS and MetaX just can't afford it.

 

Long story short, we're in the far end of a bell curve here.  TCGs will never be as popular as they once were, but we're in a stable place.

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I wouldn't be so sure given the massive hole that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro recently dug Magic into. It's literally gotten to a point now where the company would rather silence their critics who are speaking truth to power through suspending or deleting players' DCI accounts as a means of protecting their image instead of selling a product. With the way things are going right now, it won't be too long before the company is faced with a class action lawsuit that will ultimately force them to discontinue the game and it's competitors in the Secondary Market.

What you're looking at is a doomsday scenario in which every Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game product will no longer have any monetary value at all. With nobody being able to sell off their decks/collections they're left with nothing but useless pieces of cardboard. Local game stores including "brick and mortar" would be forced to go out of business with no place to play, nobody to hold any sanctioned events, as well as more distrust between companies and consumers.

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@Stryyder, I think this comes down to adaptability and creativity. A lot of those games that failed couldn't address real concerns that players had. There was either a lack of motivation or creativity or both. I played .hack and some of the stuff they came up with was fun and other things were dumb from the start... whoever thought a card that made you and your opponent switch places and play with each others' decks needs to be neutered. PanZ always had a time clock on it. I got into it assuming it would die after Kid Buu. It died much sooner than I expected but I feel anyone that wasn't expecting it to end was lying to themselves. With that said, I'm a firm believer the engine could sell itself and it just needs talented and dedicated developers and an IP that isn't limited. Also, think goodness WizKids listens. The core change really helped it move and the recent complete rule changes really bring the game together.

42 minutes ago, Card Slinger J said:

What you're looking at is a doomsday scenario in which every Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game product will no longer have any monetary value at all, and with nobody being able to sell off their decks/collections they're left with nothing but useless pieces of cardboard. Local game stores would be forced to go out of business with no place to play, nobody to hold any sanctioned events, as well as more distrust between companies and consumers.

For the most part I think players expect too much from a hobby. Occasionally you can make money from a hobby, but if you go into it expecting to make profit and get mad when that doesn't happen then it's no longer a hobby to you. The only people that should expect to make money is the Publisher/Developer, everyone involved with production and distribution, and the LGS. Everyone else is expecting too much and should collect their thoughts and really think hard as to why they're doing it. With a proper distribution model a company can sell plenty of product and players do not have to rely on a secondary market. Players should always opt to trade, buy from their store, or from each other locally anyways. Without the LGS you're back to having secret meetings in someone's mom's basement. 

I'm a firm believer that the internet secondary market has had a profound effect on trading game hobbies and most of it in my opinion hasn't been good. Most of the time the secondary market over-saturates itself causing everything  but select cards that are artificially inflated in price to be worthless, isn't saturating enough creating average highs making entry expensive, or horribly undercuts LGS's to the point they can no longer compete and can't sell product without going even or taking a hit. This last one can often lead to a store not sponsoring proper events for such a game and focusing entirely on Magic. Our Heroclix group has a pact to buy sealed product and to buy it from our store. Collectively as 6 players we spend so much money our tournaments are free complete with full prize support.

Hint: Our store typically does better than most in our area and refuses to support Magic. So Magic doesn't have to be around to bring in the money. Convincing your players to buy from you instead of the internet and rewarding them handsomely pays the bills and leaves enough to consider expanding. 

Also @Stryyder, I'm a 20 year veteran as well. High five buddy. 

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35 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

Hint: Our store typically does better than most in our area and refuses to support Magic. So Magic doesn't have to be around to bring in the money. Convincing your players to buy from you instead of the internet and rewarding them handsomely pays the bills and leaves enough to consider expanding.

Magic might not be around to bring in the money but it's absence within the Secondary Market will likely create a domino effect among it's competitors by sending the wrong message to companies like Konami, Bushiroad, Force of Will Co., Pokémon Company International, etc. that it's acceptable to condone the kind of behavior that Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro has been getting away with in recent years with Magic.

Konami is no stranger to this either since they've been getting away with mismanaging Yu-Gi-Oh! years before Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro thought it was a good idea to do the same with Magic. As for your last point, wishlists have done nothing for local game stores to help consumers obtain product that's either out of stock or out of print to help these stores turn a profit over purchasing online singles.

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43 minutes ago, Stryyder said:

Honestly, I think this thread is less about the state of card games now and more about your highly apocalyptic view of MTG.  It's like you expect it to fold within a year and drag the entire world of TCG/CCG with it.

Second this. 

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Back in the late 70's and early 80's Atari was doing exactly what Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro is currently doing with MTG today by constantly oversaturating product into oblivion in much the same way Atari kept releasing tons of shovelware into oblivion that affected the overall quality of the gaming merchandise they were selling. With consumers complaining about the lack of high quality video games made by Atari at the time it eventually led to the North American Video Game Crash of 1983 that propelled Nintendo into what it is today. Fast forward to 2017.

We're already seeing similarities between what happened in the Video Game Industry back then to what's going on right now within the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Industry. History is repeating itself only this time without a savior to help guide the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Industry along like what Nintendo did for the Video Game Industry back in the early 80's. Without a savior to turn to the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Industry is destined to fail where as when it came to Nintendo they were in the right place at the right time.

So the likelihood of a Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Market Crash in the near future is very possible. In this case it would involve a crash within the Bulk Market where consumers sell off all their cards from booster box openings to their local game stores only to keep all the valuable cards they've pulled for themselves. Most businesses will buy your card collections and then sell them for the lowest price point because with larger print quantity the more they absorb risk. So the question in regards to this is whether or not If there's a shrink in the Buyer Pool that's leading to the potential rise of counterfeit cards and low card stock quality.

In other words it's siphoning out cash flow from licensed product which ends up hurting local game stores and brick and mortal only venues in the long run. The question then becomes what can local game stores including brick and mortar only venues do to adapt to this situation before they lose out to local and online retailers for good? What were seeing now with current MTG sets is that collectors are actually making less money off the game than the players who lack the leverage to generate wealth for distributors and the company manufacturing the actual product. To collectors, it's Reserved List or bust.

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MTG would not be the end of TCG's and to a greater extent collectible gaming. Many of those players would continue to play and the ones that would stop playing MTG because of no official support would find other collectible games to play. The difference here is that when Atari begin to fall apart they honestly didn't have any actual competition. They were the Nintendo of their time without a Sega and later a Playstation. If Nintendo went out of business tomorrow Sony and Microsoft would still be fine and it would not negatively impact Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo players would either continue to enjoy what they already have and/or move onto something else but Sony and Microsoft would continue to survive regardless. No different from when Sega finally died as a console. Sega players either kept their Dreamcasts and/or moved on. The gaming world hardly felt the impact despite how huge Sega had been. Other games will continue to exist and some of them will actually become bigger from the fall. While the overall numbers of TCG players could drop significantly, almost 100% of that drop would come from the MTG community and would have minimal bearing on other games. It would be up to store owners to re-brand themselves. Yes, some LGS's would fall because they focus entirely on MTG and refuse to provide proper support to anything else. In my opinion, near sighted business owners deserve to fall when their only product fails, but the end of MTG would not be anywhere near the end of TCG as a whole. The big 3 would temporarily become the big 2 and in time a 3rd might rise again. 

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Force of Will isn't going to be around much longer anyway. The last few sets have been both shit and money gouging at the same time, later of which is seemingly being made worse with R3, while it's community participation is at an all time low. Once upon a time it's Reddit had 300 comments per new preview, now? Average 25.

25 comments per preview.

Less than 25 people give a shit, because some people post multiple times in comment strings.

FoWCo themselves are much more interested in Casters and Architect, but Casters is a complete dead zone and FoWco, in their infinite stupidity, have made a Japanese Exclusive Set. The game literally just launched. Also it's a perverted game for perverts into little girls.

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7 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

History is repeating itself only this time without a savior to help guide the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Industry along like what Nintendo did for the Video Game Industry back in the early 80's. Without a savior to turn to the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Industry is destined to fail where as when it came to Nintendo they were in the right place at the right time.

 

sigh
The Pokemon Card Game.
Owned by Nintendo (but I don't believe it is licensed by).
Is going strong, and actually growing in size since previous years, with actual support for their competitions, cash prizes, and all-around just stronger interaction with their community than Wizards and Konami.
And is sold god damn everywhere with decent profits.
YOU JUST LISTED THE SAVIOR IN YOUR OWN HYPOTHETICAL.

As said by Goo, the only sectors of the TCG/CCG community that are at risk of a huge fall as a result of MtG crashing are the sections that focus almost exclusively on MtG. And I hate to say it, but sometimes a crash is necessary within any given industry to incentivize ingenuity and development. Them crashing wouldn't be the end, but would mostly just force a shift.

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Pokémon TCG stopped being fun for me when Stage 1 and Stage 2 decks were no longer competitive with the constant push for Basics/EX's in an effort to oversaturate more product with Full Arts/Tin Promos. It was one of the main reasons why I got into Cardfight!! Vanguard 6 years ago during the precipice of a mass exodus of Yu-Gi-Oh! players jumping into Vanguard as well as MTG. It was also at a time in which those same former Yu-Gi-Oh! players that got into MTG were likely the majority of that 40% demographic who quit the game entirely due to the barrier of entry for both Standard and Modern.

I personally don't know If Pokémon TCG has gotten any better since Roaring Skies and Ancient Origins, as I haven't really competed in any serious Standard/Modified event since running a Stage 2 Blaziken deck that got curb stomped by Basic EX's due to the Rare Candy nerf and more Item Lock from Vileplume and Seismitoad EX. Afterwards I've basically borrowed decks from friends of mine in order to play in League Challenges which was pretty fun at the time but was nothing like what Battle Roads was back in the day when we had a much larger player attendance. The Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and HeartGold/SoulSilver eras were really the height of the game's success IMO.

So no I don't see Pokémon TCG as the potential savior of Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games simply because Pokémon Company International was as out of touch as Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are with MTG right now. I think this is more of an issue in regards to corporate greed that's gotten in the way with echo chambers being created through social media outlets causing a disconnect of direct communication between companies and consumers. These companies aren't looking into reading message board forums like they used to and that's a major problem.

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I wouldn't say Pokemon is a savior, just one of the games that will probably continue to do fine should the others die out. The real savior could've been Dragon Ball Super, but they had to turn to the dark side. I don't think the sky is falling but at the end of the day if these companies fail, let them. They don't want to adapt and be less greedy, teach them a lesson. Whether they learn anything or not is a different story and we all know they won't.

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Teach them a lesson as in suing the companies in federal court by putting them out of business through class action lawsuits? A lot of times when this happens the companies always tend to win because the people or entities that sue them don't have as much money to hire the kind of lawyers, attorneys, and prosecutors to help win these types of cases for them let alone a grand jury. That all might change. Both Blizzard Entertainment and Konami at one point sued Upper Deck and forced them to drop out of TCG's/CCG's entirely.

Last year a group of MTG Judges had the financial backing to almost put Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro out of business for not getting paid to judge at MTG events, yet the case was dismissed with no verdict. Now we're starting to hear more sexual harassment claims from a Level 3 MTG Judge including R&D head designer Mark Rosewater himself and while there's been proof from the MTG Judge there hasn't been any proof as to whether or not the allegations are true from Rosewater's accuser.

Why are we starting to hear more about this? Because of the drama that took place between Jeremy from UnsleevedMedia/MTGHeadquarters/TheQuartering on YouTube and Christine Sprankle a famous MTG cosplayer and player who was humiliated through cyberbullying and sexual harassment to the point where she ultimately quit MTG. As an end result Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro completely terminated his DCI account including Travis Woo from Travis Wizard on YouTube though his case I believe was a minor offense.

Christine Sprankle has every right to sue Jeremy for what he did to her though I'm not sure If she's going to go through with taking the case to federal court. Meanwhile Jeremy is trying to get back at Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro for terminating his DCI account with no appeal due to a possible overreach of power by a corporation. If Jeremy wins his lawsuit against Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro then they'd be forced to discontinue MTG through a class action lawsuit.

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6 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

Why are we starting to hear more about this? Because of the drama that took place between Jeremy from UnsleevedMedia/MTGHeadquarters/TheQuartering on YouTube and Christine Sprankle a famous MTG cosplayer and player who was humiliated through cyberbullying and sexual harassment to the point where she ultimately quit MTG. As an end result Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro completely terminated his DCI account including Travis Woo from Travis Wizard on YouTube though his case I believe was a minor offense.

"famous"

I think you mean 'Pushed by the ideologues at Wizards of the Coast to push a political agenda.'

:/

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6 hours ago, Majin Goo said:

I'm pretty certain he meant by refusing to buy their products. 

 

5 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

Uh... yeah, that ^. I don't know how you got suing giant companies out of "teach them a lesson" especially in the context of what I've been saying.

That's still just as bad as filing a lawsuit against a gaming company in federal court as it only slows the process rather than hastening it. I honestly don't see how Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are going to be able to come back from all this and expect consumers to keep buying MTG products. The trust has been lost and they need to find a way to earn it back.

How do they earn it back? By expanding the Reserved List. They have to at this point because it would help bring back consumer confidence by eliminating wallet fatigue with booster boxes actually being worth value for players and collectors who buy MTG products. It makes no sense to reprint high value cards into oblivion until they're worth nothing unless there's a change with their reprint policies.

1 hour ago, Artificial Human said:

"famous"

I think you mean 'Pushed by the ideologues at Wizards of the Coast to push a political agenda.'

:/

Except whose pushing a political agenda here, Christine or Jeremy? EIther way I still think what Jeremy did was wrong and you can debate whether or not his lifetime ban by Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro was warranted. There are no winners here and I think it's unfortunate that this happened to people who were diehard fans of MTG regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, it doesn't help the company in the long run and it certainly doesn't help those who are already affected by all of this.

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2 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

That's still just as bad as filing a lawsuit against a gaming company in federal court as it only slows the process rather than hastening it. I honestly don't see how Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are going to be able to come back from all this and expect consumers to keep buying MTG products. The trust has been lost and they need to find a way to earn it back.

How do they earn it back? By expanding the Reserved List. They have to at this point because it would help bring back consumer confidence by eliminating wallet fatigue with booster boxes actually being worth value for players and collectors who buy MTG products. It makes no sense to reprint high value cards into oblivion until they're worth nothing unless there's a change with their reprint policies.

Really? Not buying into a business model/product I don't like is as bad as trying to sue them where I know I'd lose because first and foremost my case is based on nothing? What exactly am I hypothetically suing them for in your scenario?

Is the issue really too many reprints or them not making the card accessible in the first place therefore facilitating a need for reprints? You have to understand that what they want to do is milk people on multiple levels. They don't care if your cards are worth anything because they can make an extra buck. It's the Yu-Gi-Oh! plan except I've heard it's worse.

Make X needed card hard to get so people buy sealed product for it = profit
Reprint card X in a new product so those without it need to/can buy that = profit
Repeat

Even if you remove the reprint aspect and leave hard to get cards hard to get, it's still an antiquated and bad business model/process for the players. That's what's hurting TCG/CCGs in general, at least for me.

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3 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

Except whose pushing a political agenda here, Christine or Jeremy? EIther way I still think what Jeremy did was wrong and you can debate whether or not his lifetime ban by Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro was warranted. There are no winners here and I think it's unfortunate that this happened to people who were diehard fans of MTG regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, it doesn't help the company in the long run and it certainly doesn't help those who are already affected by all of this.

Jeremy and Wizards of the Coast both wear their political agendas on their arm.

I wasn't even referring to Christine having an agenda politically, her agenda was very blatantly $$$.

Never the less, none of this really matters. Wizards has said Magic has a 40% slump. This will cause more of a slump. Wizards are seemingly incapable of fixing it due to the tiredness of the old guard, coupled with the arrogance and ineptitude of the general staff.

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