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Jaith1

Namekian Sword Archetype

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Hey guys, here are some fan-made cards I have for a dream personality. The theme here is juggling set-ups and incentivizing the sword theme to camp lower levels. If designed properly, he should have good fits in Resourceful, Radiant, and Enlightenment. I have 2 namekian sword cards in mind (1 a set-up, and 1 an energy) ideally designed to synergize with this stack.

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Lv2 Gohan Aspiring Swordsman

(Your cards with "Sword" in the title are considered to be Earth Dragon Balls for your card effects).

∞Your attacks with "Sword" in the title gain "HIT:Raise or lower your opponents anger 1 level"

POWER: Search your banished zone for 2 cards with "Sword" in the title. Rejuvenate them to lower your MP 1 level.

Lv3 Gohan Broken Sword

(Your cards with "Sword" in the title are considered Styled and gain "Banish after use.")

POWER: After performing a successful attack, search your discard pile for a styled attack and banish it to use its "HIT" effect. 

Lv4 Gohan Mystic

∞Your attacks do +1 Life card for each card with "Sword" in the title in your Banished zone. 

POWER: Use when entering combat. Choose a card in a discard pile and banish it.  Draw the bottom card of your discard pile.

Gohan's Sword Juke

(Setup) (This card is considered Styled) Physical Attack. DAMAGE: 4 stages. HIT: Return this card to your hand after use.

Namekian Sword Shatter

(Setup) (Endurance 2)

Use when one of your opponent's effects would cause you to skip your next action. Your opponent skips their next action. You may banish 1 of your Dragon Balls in play to return this card to your hand after use.

Namekian Sword Chop

(Energy Combat) (Endurance 1)

Energy Attack costing 1 stage. DAMAGE:5 stages. HIT: If this attack dealt Life Card damage, search your banished zone for an Earth Dragon Ball or a card with "Chop" in the title and place it in your hand.

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1st concern:

Radiant with the lv1 might be too strong. DB7, Gohan's Sword Juke, and Aggressive Sword Drill are all tutorable from the mastery. So being able to place sword juke back into play twice (lv1 power and db7) is probably too strong. First turn tutor Sword drill (mastery). Second turn tutor Juke and  DB7. Juke gets reused twice if your opponent has no phys block. The only reason it might not be too strong is if your opponent has time to see what is coming. Physical Block or setup hate will completely halt this combo (both which people should be packing). Another point worth mentioning is since these actions are all gaining you anger, you will not be able to easily abuse this combo.

2nd concern:

I am not sure how I feel about Namekian Sword Chop combo'ing with itself. I think its cool that it can support some Namekian Chop shenanigans however :D

 

 

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First off, what did you do to make that first picture? I came up with some ideas for Xeno Trunks myself fairly recently, but couldn't find any resources to help me with that.

While I like where your minds at with Namekian Sword Gohan (always going to love Sword Gohan), I feel like you've missed a pretty important mark by giving him that parenthetical. Rather than making Gohan treat Swords as Earth Dragon Balls, and tying his power to the Namekian style (for the most part), you should make the Namekian sword cards in question have parentheticals that treat them as specific Earth Dragon Balls. This also means that you open up Namekian Sword Synergies across the board, so we can pull some Sword Piccolo shenanigans if they're strong enough, or just go for pure beatdown Radiant without needing to actually main the EDBs (though you probably would anyway). It would also mean that you don't lose that synergy once Gohan hits level 3, and by not giving Gohan's Sword Juke that parenthetical, your first concern is already resolved. It also stops people going into Radiant, and using it to get out Aggressive Sword Drill to net a free "Sword" card, building up Namekian Sword Chops in discard and... Yeah, no.

Broken Sword feels weak for a modern level 3 tbh. And a bit unnecessary with the Banish After Use, since I think the majority of Sword cards have that innately. With how you've set him up at present, I could see him working as a Level 1/2? As it is, he comes across as an after-thought and is actually weaker than his first two levels and his official counterparts. You'd be better off just subbing him out entirely for other Gohan level 3s that also give you styled Sword attacks, but up their damage, have an in-built attack, and innately control the board (we know who I'm talking about).

I don't know how I feel about a further push with Sword Setups tbh, since I'm not huge on them. I find them a bit disharmonious with the Freestyle Sword Attacks for the most part, and I'm also a bit confused with how I sit with Gohan being a Setup stack instead of some kind of anti-/anger stack. Those are just my feelings though, but I do think that if you're going down this route, you should go harder on Gohan using Setups in his higher levels. We've seen similar personalities in the past that move away from setups so early, and it can really hurt deck synergy in the late game if your MP has no way to interact with them after the first few beats of play.

These are just my thoughts though. I like his level 1 the most, since it offers the most interesting deck propositions. Level 2 is one I'd likely only ever use for the rejuvenate, and then bounce back to 1. Level 3 is one I'd just straight up never use, and 4 is... Curious? Strictly speaking, I think it'd beat out his previous level 4s for raw damage potential, but Undeniable gives me freestyles and unpreventable damage that needs to be hard-blocked.

Ultimately, while I see this stack encouraging camping, I don't think it does it for the right reasons. It does it through half his stack being dead/finnicky with damage (Mystic).

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I think what I am going for is a set-up theme, and the sword theme more or less only works in namekian for him. 

Another thing is the levels purposely don’t synergize together. The higher levels use different strategies from the lower levels, forcing you to make interesting choices as a specific game develops. (Rather then oh look I pulled Unleashed, GG)

“Do I want to bank my sword cards in my banished zone, and gamble that I can reach Lv4?” 

“Or do I rejuvenate them and go back down to a very solid lv1”

You are correct that the level 2’s only purpose is to bring you back down to lv1. Maybe give the player a choice to raise anger instead of lowering 1 MP level, but this is not intended to be an MPPV stack.

the level 3 needs work. It’s too close to evo trunks lv3 for my liking. But I was hoping to do some sort of utility level rather than straight beat your face lv 3.

Last thing to point out is Sword Chop is not banish after use and as a result can’t combo on itself unless you are level 3. You can use leaping kick to banish them however ;) .

i also think Gohan should have exclusive perks to namekian Sword, (it’s the whole point, I don’t want radiant slug sword) which is why the parenthetical is exclusive to Gohan’s early levels.

Lastly, I somewhere along the line this stack was supposed to be compatible with enlightenment mastery as well. I lost sight of that now.

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Again, the issue arises with things like Aggressive Sword Drill and co. By making Gohan the one that makes Swords into Earth Dragon Balls, you wind up with a lot of incidental comboes that become straight up overwhelming with Namekian Sword Chop, Namekian Chop, Dashing Sword Attack and so on. Off the top of my head, I could probably work out a turn that goes for 7-8 attacks right there off of 2 cards. WITHOUT using his setup.

I don't like any design philosophy that really only works with 1 style, ScoreZ, PanZ, FanZ or customs. But that's my stance. It was a thing in ScoreZ, so I think that depends on your own stance, and a lot of the Namekian MPs are designed to go hand-in-hand with specific Masteries (which has had negative influence on how good they are, and how much they're being used, let's be honest). If you're hard committed to it though, you do you.

I do think that all that's necessary to make people want to camp with a stack is to NOT give that stack anger acceleration of any kind. The most stacks that don't naturally gain anger do with MPPV is have it as a secondary win condition, which'll only happen once in a blue moon with specific Masteries. And the ONLY thing in your current stack that makes it not an exclusive level 1 stack is his first constant. And removing that, this could actually just work as an off-hand level 1 that does it's own thing.
His level 2 is fine though, I don't have any issues with it. It's pretty much Goku - Kaioken, but rejuvenating sword cards instead of grabbing a drill. My comment was more that his passive isn't going to be hugely worth it most of the time since the freestyle sword cards hit anger anyway, and there is some decent anger control in Namekian. It's unnecessary.

And the point of him switching gears in higher levels to be more aggressive is fine, his level 4 is fine as a stand-alone, it has plenty of synergy with a Sword deck. But it has limited synergy with a setup deck. And it's the latter that causes the problem, since there's no incentive to use it in the same deck with his earlier levels when they don't synergize. You can use his Awakening Stack, tech in Sword-cards with Banish After Use, and develop a more synergistic deck for his level 4 in Saiyan or Blue. His early levels don't actually offer him advantage, so there's no incentive to keep the stack together. They just... Do different things? And we've seen with Villaingeta, Raditz and a lot of the earlier stacks why that can mess things up.

There's an argument that you want to keep them together because of Gohan's Backlash swinging you up to 4 for a hyper-aggressive turn, and then you can drop back down to 1 next turn. But there's not really any gamble there? Backlash either hits, or it doesn't, and in either case, his level 3 can be ignored. And this argument works the same for a mixed stack, where you go Adept, Aspiring Swordsman, Unassuming, Mystic.

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Just now, Jaith1 said:

Actually now that you mention it Namekian Sword Chop and Dashing Sword Attack would create an infinite loop. With this Gohan.

Believe me, I am aware xD That is my concern.

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So the parenthetical has to stay on the MP in my opinion. Otherwise it cannot compete with the other Gohan stacks.

The parenthetical should only affect styled sword cards, eliminating the turn 1 Aggressive Sword drill option (which should be a Trunks thing).

Namekian Sword Chop is then tolerable in my opinion. It’s goal was to synergize with leaping kick or provide a card in hand for enlightened mastery. 

Sword cards should always be mediocre, since they have amazing tutor/draw options. The goal of the lv3 and lv4 is then to incentivize “trashing” your sword cards in your banish pile for substantial bonuses. Lv3 is going to be reworked with this idea in mind.

Another goal is to make him a little more compatible  in Resourceful and Ruthless. Maybe the lv2 can lean towards blue more (Dominance). 

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49 minutes ago, Jaith1 said:

Another goal is to make him a little more compatible  in Resourceful and Ruthless. Maybe the lv2 can lean towards blue more (Dominance). 

I honestly think this would be a huge improvement, since it just gives the stack a bit more strength and usefulness outside of Namekian.

And tbh, I still don't know if the parenthetical has to stay on Gohan to make him compete with his other stacks. If you do move the parenthetical, it's a good opening for you to look for some other parenthetical or effect to put on Gohan that would be more compatible with his higher levels. If you wanted to get weird, for example, you could make it so when he is delevelled into his Level 1, you can add a "Sword" or "Dragon Ball" to your hand,or put a setup from drop onto the field (depending on how you want to work him). This would give him synergy with Rampaging, between his first and second level, a lot of obvious strength with Red, and even some potential in Black/Orange. It also works REALLY well with Gohan's level hopping theme. It really just depends on if you want Gohan to be a Dragon Ball-themed MP, a full setup MP, or a dedicated Sword MP. Right now, he feels like he's sat awkwardly in there and NEEDS Namekian to function.

That said, if you really do want the parenthetical on Gohan, that's fine after the errata. Styled Sword Cards being Dragon Balls could work in other styles IF the other non-Namekian styles get the god damn Dragon Ball support to make them worthwhile. Because I cannot think of a single other style that can tutor Dragon Balls in that way. But that's not really on you, there's just not much in the way of good DB support outside of Namekian.

And yeah, sword cards should be mediocre. That's just a general truth. They've stopped just being mediocre as of the more recent FanZ expansions (Dabura's named cards, Trunks' Slam, the Saiyan Sword Drill, etc.), but I still think that design philosophy is important when making cards with such strong tutoring.

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It has been months and I thought I would revisit this Mystic Gohan Sword stack. The level 1 camp idea has been scrapped, and the level 2 has been reworked. This makes him playable in both namekian and blue as a camp lv2 stack.  Switching the Lv4's when entering combat power to an energy attack might be too strong with the access to Gohan's Backlash. The lv3 might be complarable now to the awakening lv3 we shall see.

 

Lv1 Gohan Student

(Your styled cards with "Sword" in the title are considered to be Earth Dragon Balls for your card effects).

∞Your opponents effects cannot lower your anger.

POWER: Place a set-up from your hand into play.

 

Lv2 Gohan Aspiring Swordsman

(Your cards with "Sword" in the title are considered to be Earth Dragon Balls for your card effects).

∞Your attacks with "Sword" in the title gain "HIT:Your styled cards are considered to have "Sword" in the title for your card effects for the remainder of combat"

POWER: Choose a card in your banished zone and rejuvenate it. If that card had "Sword" in the title, search your life deck for a set-up with "Sword" in the title and place it into play. 

 

Lv3 Gohan Broken Sword

(Your cards with "Sword" in the title are considered Styled.)

∞Your attacks gain "HIT:Choose a styled card in a discard pile and banish it."

POWER: Physical Attack doing 5 stages.

HIT: Search your discard pile for a styled attack and banish it to use its "HIT" effect. 

 

Lv4 Gohan Mystic

∞Your attacks do +1 Life card for each card with "Sword" in the title in your Banished zone. 

POWER: Energy Attack

DAMAGE: 1 Life card.

Draw the bottom card of your discard pile.

HIT: Choose a card in a discard pile and banish it.

 

Gohan's Sword Juke

(Setup) (This card is considered Styled) Physical Attack. DAMAGE: 4 stages. HIT: Return this card to your hand after use.

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@Jaith1 I really like this re-working, ngl. Especially the new Level 2. That is actually a pretty viable card, and really works wonders in Blue (although I still don't particularly like Setup Sword cards).

This feels like it gives much more momentum in the first-half of the middle game. You get some good searchability, a few extra actions per turn, and while I can't immediately come up with any exceptional comboes using his Level 2's HIT, I'm sure I could come up with something once i get back into deck-building (not touched it for a few months).

And tbh, I wouldn't really worry about any potential balancing issues with his Level 3. Or his Level 4. Neither of them really stand-out as exceptionally overpowered; The Level 3 is honestly still a little bit lackluster compared both the Awakening Level 3s and the FanZ Level 3s. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it does have some utility and an okay disruption element, but it feels like it's around equal to Trunks - Power Charged in terms of usability.

As for his Level 4, it still has the potential to become a really overwhelming Level. But it needs set-up, and a lot of dedication and timing to hit that point. That is already more than 9/10 of the Level 4s in the game need, so if you hit his Level 4 and can come out swinging hard (even with Gohan's Backlash), that's actually pretty legit. And while I can see an argument for the number of actions being a bit iffy (being able to use Dashing Sword Attack, then rejuvenating it and grabbing an extra attack in a set-up, then Gohan's Backlash up to effectively net 2-3 free extra actions), I actually think this is completely fine because of how easy it is to stop.

Heck, Awakening Goku is pulling similar stuff from his Level 2 (minus the ramp-up damage), and he doesn't need to rely on a HIT effect to pull it.

tl;dr: You can maybe give his Level 3 a little more oomph if you are really determined to make it compete with current top stacks, but I actually think this is fine. I'd still skip his Level 1 outside of Namekian decks personally(it just doesn't have that much synergy), but you're also fighting with Adept for that spot, and that's a losing battle if there ever was one. Then his Level 2 is actually enough where I'd run Sword setups, and where I'd run him happily over his Awakening LV2.

And I always liked his Level 4, so the slight buff of making it an attack is actually just wonderful and straight up means I'd genuinely consider Backlash decks.

Now to go back and debuff the SHIT out of my Xeno Trunks stack.

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The lv 3 is totally broken. Because it makes your sword cards styled it can trigger an infinite loop with dashing sword and your namekian sword chop with a single attack. Namekian sword chop is probably overpowered as is by adding a card to hand from your banish zone, and probably needs a total rework. Even without that the level 3 allows dashing sword to chain with itself for as many as you have in your discard pile +1 sword card of choice. Which is likely a game ender. Too punishing for not drawing a block. Parenthetical should be your attack cards with sword in ty he title are considered styled. Then it will work like awakening gohan. But at that point Denithan would be right and it could use a little something extra to compete.

 

The level 4 modifier seems broken to me. You could easily get up into the +9, +12, or even +15 life cards range. With every attack. One namekian backhand would be a game ender. Yes you have to get to 4, but leaping kick working with the dragon ball effects and unleashed would make this pretty easy and even if you get there early his other effects are plenty good for early game. Possible fixes could be capping the modifier (+5 maybe? ) or having it only apply to his personality attack. The discard banish should probably just be an immediate effect either way. 

 

On the reworked lv 2 the hit effect has a similar problem to the lv 3 parenthetical. Being able to rejuvenate ANY banished card on lv 2 seems a little too powerful/abuseable. Maybe limit it to sword and named cards. But you could probably make the setup tutor work with even non-sword set ups. I see no issues there and the better ones tend to be sword anyway. Gives him more targets when life deck gets low.

 

I really don't like the styled sword cards = EDB parenthetical. It brings up to many rulings questions. For example radiant mastery would allow you to place any sword card into play including types that aren't supposed to do that like physical or energy combats. Would the attacks be useable at that point? I don't know. That's new ground. And on 2 and 3 this includes your freestyle sword cards too. I'm with Denithan that an effect like that belongs on a namekian card/s (probably drill or setup to avoid the above situation). And it helps keep the stack from being shoehorned to one style. I might suggest making gohans sword juke into a namekian card, giving him a new named card with a broader effect, and creating a namekian sword drill that synergizes with the stack. 

 

That said I really like the flavor and thought you've put into this. Joey did say the next gohan stack would not be sword focused though. But that doesn't mean he won't be able to do something with swords. I'm personally ok with this because I'd rather gohan have more broad appeal. 

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Namekian Sword Chop has been scrapped at this point but I didn’t make that clear. Thinking of changing the hit effect to “HIT:Raise your anger X levels. X = the number of “Chop”  cards in your discard pile. Another thing may be to just reduce the damage output to ensure the card is only active when Radiant Mastery is active.

Gohan’s Sword Juke as it stands also works with resourceful mastery, and is perhaps even stronger than in Radiant. One easy change would be to count sword juke as an earth dragon ball and remove the parenthetical from the personality.

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17 hours ago, v3rse said:

The lv 3 is totally broken. Because it makes your sword cards styled it can trigger an infinite loop with dashing sword and your namekian sword chop with a single attack. Namekian sword chop is probably overpowered as is by adding a card to hand from your banish zone, and probably needs a total rework. Even without that the level 3 allows dashing sword to chain with itself for as many as you have in your discard pile +1 sword card of choice. Which is likely a game ender. Too punishing for not drawing a block. Parenthetical should be your attack cards with sword in ty he title are considered styled. Then it will work like awakening gohan. But at that point Denithan would be right and it could use a little something extra to compete.

I actually didn't know that kind of parenthetical extended to cards while they were in the drop/life deck o-O I had always assumed that kind of thing ONLY applied when they were in the throes of being played. But I think I'm still working on Yu-Gi-Oh, where cards in deck are considered "unknown" and graveyard rulings are... Honestly, a god damn disaster.

Fair dues, I have learned something new.

As for his level 4, the main reason I don't mind it too much is because it needs a few turns to build up. But eh, this might be a Frieza's Supernova moment where I'm just missing how quickly it ramps damage. I'd need to see it in effect before I change my stance though, honestly.

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