Jump to content
Amanax

Combative Gohan - The New Pet Project

Recommended Posts

So I have started working on this as my new pet project, and I really really am enjoying the concept but am having some difficulty in certain matchups keeping my stages low enough to be able to fire off my ally attacks. Looking for some spicy card suggestions if anyone has them.

 

Here is the deck so far:

~Mastery:
Orange Combative Mastery

~MP:

Vengeance Gohan lvl 1

Awakening Gohan 2-4

~Allies:

Yamcha

Goku

Chichi

Piccolo

Icarus

Chaotzu

Tien

Puar

~Events:

3x Sphere

3x Meditation

~Drills/Setups:

2x Orange Focusing Drill

1x Orange Burning Aura Drill

2x Orange Conference Drill

2x VtP

1x Orange Checkup Drill

1x Orange Steady Drill

2x Orange Assistance Drill

1x Orange Hiding Drill

1x Orange Aura Drill

~Blocks:

3x Orange Juke

1x TiaWT

3x Orange Swerve

2x Orange Quick Dodge

2x Orange Dismissal

2x Orange Energy Absorption

~ Attacks:

3x Orange Fierce Attack

3x Orange Right Beam

2x Orange Orange Counter Ball

3x Orange Separating Shot

3x Overpowering Attack

2x Orange Stare Down

2x Orange Power Point

2x Orange Sweeping Blast

 

Basic concept now is to establish an ally board with Icarus protecting your allies from destruction / banish effects and then having Orange assistance drill protecting from banishment effects and then having protection drill protecting assistance drill all while pushing constant energy attacks (All styled thanks to Awakening Gohan) which will trigger mastery to prevent damage. Also having access to double block drills and double block allies for defense and the stage gain cards don't specify which personality gains stages allowing to add stages to the allies to throw their attacks.

 

Overall thoughts and suggestions welcome. Especially if anyone can think of another energy attack I can add which would pull allies from the grave. Either put them back in the deck or play them. Can be non-styled or styled, so long as it's energy and can be used efficiently by Gohan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AMANAX.

I will come back later for suggestions after I screen the Freestyle and Orange Energy combats, but just wanted to shoot out there that it's cool to see you working on another project. Curious what's drawn you to Combative though.

WILL RETURN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What drew me to combative was a conversation I had on the trip back from the last tournament. How gross would it be to get to level 3 as Garlic Jr with combative mastery, ball 6, and hiding drill out. 

 

Of course, Garlic never got tested because... nah. But the deck quickly evolved into Future Gohan with his -1 life card on all levels and his ability to shut down / abuse opposing powers. The deck tested EXTREMELY well in some matchups but completely failed in others for both a leveling build and a camp build. The biggest problem with it was that it lacked aggression and couldn't deal with ball decks, ally decks, or speed anger decks at all because of it. Got me thinking about using the hero allies that perform energy attacks to make up for the lack of aggression and with Awakening Gohan they would also trigger the mastery prevention effect. This should, in theory allow me to still be very strong against a straight beats deck, whos damage is going to be heavily mitigated and recovered from and also give me a lot more pressure on the board. 

 

I especially liked the fact that I get to use cute cards no one ever uses, like assistance drill and goku ally. =P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far, cards I am considering adding

Point Blank volley - Costs 3 stages which will eat a huge chunk of my PUR stages, has anti-anger and can randomly come to my hand after being endured from damage

Orange Spotlight - I do so love my cute cards and this is among the cutest. I would have to play with my hand revealed for a turn, but giving all my attacks +2 life for the turn is pretty juicy sweet if I time it on a turn I can really pop off. 

Sobering Hammer - I HATE the fact that I'm still considering this card. It won't grab most of my allies. Pretty much only Icarus, it's not an energy combat so won't get any of my damage buffs or trigger mastery prevention if it hits. What it does do, is it allows me to cycle icarus easier and if it does hit will shut down unleash decks for a bit, including my own level up (Which yes, there have so far been some match-ups I have chosen to not use level 1 power because wiping my board and resetting my stages was far more painful than gaining the single ally would have been)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should also consider some Orange Staples like Orange Uppercut to search out one of your Energy Attacks while also dropping stages. While the attack itself doesn't really help the above points, it does net you an Energy Attack regardless to swing with and pushes for an increase in overall synergy.

Orange Bicycle Kick is another staple to consider, but one I can understand leaving out because it is quite infamous. Personally, I'd say not to put it in just because it's more interesting that way.

Surprised you don't have Assisted Kamehameha tbh. About the only big thing I see this deck missing (having finally had time to put it together myself) is that you kind of lack unconditional offense, and A. Kamehameha is just solid as anything for that, especially since it's treated as Styled from LV2 up.
You could also consider some combat-enders in the interim as well. You don't really have much in the way of rapid-fire engines to drop your allies to the board like Namekian Gohans do, so something to delay the opponent's assault and give you more uses of your LV1 is pretty worthwhile considering.

Oh, curious question because I've always been curious, how do things like Android Defensive Blast interact with Gohan's continuous???

Also, since i get the feeling that you're enjoying some of the cuter comboes this deck can pull, I have always had an affinity for Orange Offensive Strike. It's 1 power stage, so it's alright to help you nudge your own stages down enough so that your allies make actions without being unplayable, but it also searches extra copies of itself. Granted, the total damage of all 3 isn't that great, but with a lot of modifiers in play, it can stack up. The downside is; No Endurance, and honestly, the card just isn't great. It's just cute and opens some comboes.

A similar thing can be said about Orange Electricity. Medium damage attack, 1 stage cost, completely prevents the damage of your opponent's next attack. Kind of matches up with your MO, but it doesn't directly play into your win con.

Other than that though, having rummaged through all the Orange Energy Attacks and the Freestyles Attacks in general, there's unfortunately not much else that fits what you were looking for that you don't already have. Sobering Hammer will help you grab out a quick Icarus, as you pointed out, but doesn't help with any of your other end games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes sense that you would mention some of the above cards. At one point another a lot of them have been in this deck and have already been cut. I'll start by addressing each of those and why I personally took them out.

Orange Uppercut - Was cut due to the overall lack of damage the card brings. Yes, it lowers stages, but the ability to tutor an energy combat isn't unique for the deck since I already have awakening Gohan level 2 power to do the same thing. Combine those with the fact that it's a physical and doesn't get any of my modifiers or proc mastery, it just didn't make the cut. It might go in again though, since you're right, it would allow me to double down on the cost of that energy attack. Just wish it didn't have to tutor a styled card! ugh. 

 

Orange Bicycle Kick - This cut was a hard one to make. I loved the anti-anger on the card and the ability to swap out some of my drills. But like uppercut it was eventually dropped due to the lack of damage and synergy with the rest of what the deck was trying to do. It too could come back, just because the utility it offers is so high but I'm not sold on it being in the deck as of yet.

 

Orange Offensive Strike - I LOVED this card in the original build. It was cut during the FG days of the build and I honestly miss it. The biggest problem I had with the card was when I would either draw two of them at the same time or have one go to damage making the rest of them weaker. Super fun card though. If it had just a little more.. anything I would probably put it back in without a second thought.

 

Orange Electricity - I'm constantly going back and forth on this card. I really like the prevention effect and damage. It got cut during the transition to the ally build due to the lower cost and knowing stages was going to be a problem. Right now I'm considering dropping Right Beam for it again, especially after last weeks games where my allies were under heavy attack and having the prevention effect could have come in pretty clutch.

 

As for the other cards you mentioned:
Android defensive blast - Yeah I noticed this one as well. It would be cool to take some of the bluster out of some decks out there by shutting off their abilities. Ultimately it got put on the back burner because I have no idea what to replace for it while I'm still working out getting my stage drain down and it only being a 1-cost energy. Definitely bumped back up to the maybe list. 

 

Assisted Kamehameha - HOLY SUPER KAMI GURU: Okay, so this is exactly why I posted. I just KNEW there was something stupid obvious I was missing and here is a fantastic example of such. I usually don't even THINK about this card unless I'm playing Goku or Vegeta since they are the ones giving it reliable crit damage. But with my drills I will too. Big oversight on my part and will FOR SURE be trying to find a place for this one.  

 

Combat enders are a cool idea. You are right, I don't have a lot of "unconditional offense" as you put it. So far, I have yet to get an ideal scenario going, so we'll talk realistically what it does have. Puar + Tien + Fierce attack. Using Gohan level 2 to grab fierce attack and then Puar to copy Tien (Giving +1) and then Tien attacking (For another +1) with modifiers and whatever else you drew can start adding up the unpreventable damage fast. So far, I haven't played a game where people have enough blocks in the deck to stop it consistently. Honestly, the hardest match up I've had so far was Black Mischievous 17. I had to save Chichi for his punch so he couldn't stack vans and had to always be ready to grab an orange staredown to deal with Van should it come out on it's own. Though Icarus would have just been shuffled in thanks to assistance, a follow-up van would start to sweep my allies away. Plus the hand destruction kept hitting my attacks so I never had enough attacks in hand to drop my stages low enough to begin using the attacking allies while he kept firing off direct life attacks.

 

Quite frustrating to be honest. That and letting someone use my Cell deck to see if it could keep Gohan down. turns out, the deck is rather resilient though, the only game I have lost so far was against knowledge piccolo, but he drew into a bunch of combat enders and I failed to play around ball 2 correctly which set me back a ton. With some quick changes, I think the deck has a decent match up against most. I need to test it against a TRUE anger deck though. See who gets where first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So first off - Thank you again Denithan for the AK catch. Already noticing it doing work.

 

I realized another card that needs to be added that fits the theme of layered protection. Shenron ally. With Icarus protecting from destroy effects and needing to be hit first, shenron can then just rez him similar to the combative mastery pulling back protection drill if it gets sniped.

 

Now I just need an ally that tutors allies from the deck =P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Amanax said:

So first off - Thank you again Denithan for the AK catch. Already noticing it doing work.

 

I realized another card that needs to be added that fits the theme of layered protection. Shenron ally. With Icarus protecting from destroy effects and needing to be hit first, shenron can then just rez him similar to the combative mastery pulling back protection drill if it gets sniped.

 

Now I just need an ally that tutors allies from the deck =P

So what does the list look like now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It hasn't changed too much as of yet. I still haven't decided what I want to take out for Shenron. Probably the second conference drill

The only changes so far have been 
-1 Assistance Drill
-1 Heroic Sphere
-1 Right Beam
+3 Assisted Kamehameha

Here is the current list though



Blocks:


2x Orange Quick Dodge
3x Orange Swerve
2x Orange Energy Absorption
2x Orange Dismissal
1x Time is a Warriors Tool
3x Orange Juke

Setups / Drills:
2x vtp
2x Orange Conference Drill
2x Orange Focusing Drill
1x Orange Checkup Drill
1x Orange Hiding Drill
1x Orange Assistance Drill
1x Orange Burning Aura Drill
1x Orange Steady Drill
1x Orange Aura Drill

Events:
3x Orange Meditation
2x Heroic Sphere

Allies:
Icarus
Goku
Chichi
Yamcha
Tien
Chaozu
Puar
Piccolo

Attacks:
3x Overpowering Attack
2x Orange Stare Down
3x Orange Fierce Attack
2x Orange Right Beam
2x Orange Sweeping Blast
2x Orange Power Point
2x Orange Counter Ball
3x Orange Separating Shot
3x Assisted Kamehameha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update after tonights games

Shenron is awesome for getting back Icarus from destroy effects and the layered drill protection engine works fantastically. 

 

What doesn't work - 

The allies are too slow.  Maybe I do need to look into combat enders or something, but I just cannot get my allies out fast enough early on against an aggressive deck and if it's something aggressive that also has access to a ton of crits on command like ascension Krillin then that ally engine just completely falls apart.

Anti-anger. It's simply not strong enough. I CANNOT throttle a fast deck. 

 

I will say the deck feels REEAAALLLY close to being good. It's RIGHT there. It just needs one or two things, but I'm afraid that those things just don't exist at the moment.  However, on a positive note, if you play against a lot of stage beat decks, this deck is a champ. But it struggles getting it's own stages low enough to get those attacking allies going. Would love an orange drill that let me drain stages to buff up attacks. That'd be fantastic. 

Currently looking at the sobering hammers again - I NEED more ways to get those allies into play. Wallbreaker - I have enough defense to keep it live, hate that it is only a speed bump against some decks and against unleash decks it can hurt me, but I am not seeing a real alternative. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, so I've been trying to tackle this in bits and pieces on my end. But I have been fairly slow about it, and tbh, I'm trying my best not to mess too much with the different themes you've got going, or the attack line-up. About what I've gotten so far is this;

- Puar

To be honest, Puar isn't needed to your comboes, and is just another card to get into play, and another card you need to lose stages for. And while Puar is nice, you're ultimately just pressing an advantage you ALREADY have if you're using her.

- 2 Orange Quick Dodge
- 1 Aura Drill
Seriously, this deck has so much in-built physical/stage protection just as a result of being an ally deck. Add on top of that both Chi-Chi, and Icarus, and you're pretty well in control. As a result, I feel like Aura Drill is in the "just another card you need to get on the board" area, and Quick Dodge just doesn't do enough on top of being a physical block.
- 1 Steady Drill
- 1 Focusing Drill
Steady Drill is fully okay to leave in here. It's not a bad card by any means. My main focus with this deck has been cutting out the number of cards you need to get on the board, and Steady just didn't make the cut with my own testing. As for Focusing Drill, to be honest, you may not need it at all. It's nice, and it stops Black decks from ripping you another asshole, but being real, it is literally just another card to get on to the field after you've set up your board. By itself, it doesn't further any of your win cons. So put it to 1 total imo.

+ 2 Blinding Energy Move
+ 1 Earth Dragon Ball 7
This deck needs some early combat enders. Badly. If you come up against an aggro enough deck, and they get a couple of good enters on you early enough, you're going to be struggling uphill forever after. These at least give you a HOPE to slow these decks down enough.

+ 2 Focused Blast
I'd argue to completely drop Focusing Drill and go triple Focused Blast tbh. Decent damage, easy enough stage to pay, extra energy attack to bring down your own stages, and acts as an attach that stops key drills from being blown apart.

+1 Heroic Plan
Honestly, I'm kind of shocked I've not seen anyone bringing this one up o-O Heroic Plan PERFECTLY fits your criteria for cards, with the only issue being that it is a set-up.

I'm not sure if this is quite in line with what you're aiming for, but this is what I've worked out so far. Give it a try and let me know if it works any better??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm.an interesting approach. Since there are two I just want to clarify, you mean remove bruning aura drill not aura drill right? 

 

I agree. Puar can be dropped easily. He's an extender for when the deck is working. Right now, his engine isn't working.

If this deck could spit out allies faster I would agree that two of the blocks aren't needed. However as is, I'm hesitant to remove my only two non-BAU physical blocks AND remove the passive block that so far has been working.

 

Perhaps we just play against different types of decks, but honestly black is not why focuaing drill is at 2. Pretty much every deck in play group runs removal. Which is another reason why the deck currently isn't functioning. I can't get the allies to stay in play. In the 10 or so games this deck has now played, I think only once has the primary blocker (chichi or pickles) not been banished early on forcing me to rely on the drill engine for protection. 

 

With how my test games rounded out last night, I don't see the Ally engine being worth pursuing in my group at all. It's the inconsistent part and giving up what it does do well to double down on that weakness feels like a disaster to me. 

 

With that said, I encourage you that if you like the concept of the deck to use the now styled allies to create prevention then run with it. Unless orange gets a little more Ally support I think I'm going to try something that can focus on what is already functioning with the deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh! Yeah, I meant drop Burning Aura Drill.

And tbh, I think I just like taking the hits for the most part so that I can make sure I can use my allies. But I've also been fairly lucky in my match-ups since I'm not dealing with too many of the nastier hit effects.

Honestly, my mindset with this one was just to remove all the excess cards that take up deck/hand space and leave me with such bad early game turns. If you can bring it down to JUST what's necessary to win, then I think this deck is a lot more forgiving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you could get away with just 1 focusing drill. 1 sphere is probably also ok since they're aren't a lot of events you're worried about. I agree on puar as well.

I think the 3rd right beam is worth it since it also helps get a hit off for prevention and helps with anti anger (can be rejuvenated for additional anger loss). Helps on offense, defense, and your poor mppv match up. Focused blast is an interesting idea as well. Overall I think I would try:

-1 puar

-1 chaozu (you probably need to ditch another ally and chaozu is the most expendable because he isn't immediately reliable due to his cost. And after he attacks you have to find him again which you've admitted the deck is slow at doing)

-1 sphere

-2 focusing drill

-2 sweeping blast

-2 counter ball

+1 right beam

+1 edb 7

+2 BEM

+1 orange staredown

+1 power point 

+3 focused blast 

 

The goal with these changes was to drop some board cards for dead draws (you're very board heavy running a large drill and ally package), add some combat enders, and maximize value in attacks. 

With 3 right beam, separating shot, and AK you don't care much about time which makes sweeping blast and sphere less relevant. 

Dropping some board makes your tien draws more reliable. As you said your ally package needed to be downgraded since you don't have enough ally tech to work with. Combat enders will also help mitigate risk from drawing dead and help you use your lv 1 when entering search more often. 

Power point helps get drills out faster and adds endurance. Staredown helps with board hate consistency in this board heavy meta (if you feel the lv 2 search does an adequate job though you can swap this for a sphere or overwhelming power for the crit or something fun. Try to stay away from more board though.) Focused blast does (for the most part) the job of both focusing drill and counter ball while letting you trim board and be slot efficient. I will admit that I don't have a ton of first hand experience with focused blast though, so it should definitely be tested.

Anyway these changes should help you get up to speed a little quicker and reduce the odds of getting caught with your pants down. But yeah it does suck that there's not more useable ally tech.

I'd encourage you not to give up even if it's just a fun deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×