Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'm loving the visual style, and I'm weirdly into Frieza being dragged into the mix. But I am HUGELY iffy on Broly base form being stronger than Blue. Feels like we're getting another Jiren with a Broly skin.

That said; TAKING BETS NOW. FUSION OR ULTRA INSTINCT, WHAT WILL KILL BROLY?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Denithan said:

I'm loving the visual style, and I'm weirdly into Frieza being dragged into the mix. But I am HUGELY iffy on Broly base form being stronger than Blue. Feels like we're getting another Jiren with a Broly skin.

That said; TAKING BETS NOW. FUSION OR ULTRA INSTINCT, WHAT WILL KILL BROLY?

I want it to be Fusion (Blue Gogeta) but it'll probably be Ultra Instinct.

 

Also, I kind of like Goku and Vegeta in their Adidas track suits... lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2018 at 1:02 PM, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

I want it to be Fusion (Blue Gogeta) but it'll probably be Ultra Instinct.

 

Also, I kind of like Goku and Vegeta in their Adidas track suits... lol

Doubt we're going to see Mastered Ultra Instinct again after the Tournament of Power arc since Toei pretty much retconned it to explain why Goku resorts to Super Saiyan 4 in Dragon Ball GT If we're led to assume that it will be officially canon after Dragon Ball Super and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. According to the trailer we just saw Dragon Ball Minus is officially canon as well which contradicts Goku being butt naked when he arrived to Earth after Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta before the events of the original Dragon Ball series when Grandpa Gohan raised him in Mt. Paozu. I guess it'll be nice to see Bardock and Gine in this new film.

How is it that when Gohan was in his Adidas track suit during the Resurrection 'F' arc people complained but nobody did when #18 wore her Adidas track suit during the Tournament of Power arc along with Goku and Vegeta wearing theirs in this new film? In the English Dub during the Resurrection 'F' arc, Piccolo even comments on this wondering why Gohan forgot his fighting gi when Frieza arrived back on Earth after he was resurrected with the Earth's Dragon Balls. People really need to cut Gohan some slack, Future Trunks didn't fare any better either after that deus ex machina Future Zeno pulled to defeat Zamasu.

Why is it that Gohan gets crapped on for being a better father than his dad but when Goku gets crapped on for being a bad father he gets a free pass? We're talking about someone who abandoned his own son to go train in Other World during the Saiyan arc only to try to make up for it during the Cell Games arc when it was too little too late. Krillin's had PTSD issues worse than Gohan has due to being used as a plot device so many times in order to help further advance Goku as a character and in the case with Gohan it was Raditz, Nappa, and the Ginyu Force which he parodies as the Great Saiyaman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Card Slinger J said:

Doubt we're going to see Mastered Ultra Instinct again after the Tournament of Power arc since Toei pretty much retconned it to explain why Goku resorts to Super Saiyan 4 in Dragon Ball GT If we're led to assume that it will be officially canon after Dragon Ball Super and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. According to the trailer we just saw Dragon Ball Minus is officially canon as well which contradicts Goku being butt naked when he arrived to Earth after Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta before the events of the original Dragon Ball series when Grandpa Gohan raised him in Mt. Paozu. I guess it'll be nice to see Bardock and Gine in this new film.

Honestly, I'm still yet to see anything that would suggest that GT is going to be canon after Super. I've been hearing it since before Battle of Gods, but I've never seen a source, an official statement, or anything else like that. And at this point, I'm just prone to saying that it's not going to be canon.
That said, if you have an official source that proves me wrong, throw it my way dude.

Dragon Ball Minus being canon feels a bit weird, but honestly, those little inconsistencies are really unsurprising with Toriyama. He CONSTANTLY forgets all the finer details, and hell, at times, he flat out forgets incredibly important details.

Also, I think a large issue with Gohan isn't the Adidas track suit, but the lack of training on his part. Which is just flat-out inexcusable because they have the hyperbolic time-chamber, which means that he can literally take a week off to train/study (with text books, because I don't imagine that room has internet) as like, an evening activity in real time. This means that he could actually be a really great father, and everything his own Dad wasn't, while at least maintaining his shape. And the fact he DOESN'T is actually a really big issue, especially with how much progress he made in what must've been around 20-ish hours of straight training with Piccolo. Threats are non-stop and constant, and his getting comfortable is an active threat because Goku and Vegeta are both incredibly unreliable.

That said, I don't think I've seen a single person on Top Tier defend Goku as a Father, or give him a free pass. Shit, the Dragon Ball Super manga specifically calls attention to this (with him stating that he doesn't even know when his sons were born, and Vegeta responding that he is a despicable parent).

The most that can be said in his defense was that he WAS a Father to Gohan before his first death (to Raditz). After that, he NEEDED to train to combat the Saiyans (and still came up hella short of Vegeta), then Gohan went to Namek without Goku, so he gets a pass there. Then the shit with Frieza happened on Namek, and THEN we get to the first true instance of negligence on Goku's part with him refusing to return to Earth after Namek exploded. At THIS point, Goku chose to just... Be in space, not even necessarily training, instead of being there for his son.

Following that, he spends the time up to the Androids training with Gohan (which can be loosely interpreted as Dad'ing), then is ill until Cell pops by, and then he spends 2 years being a Dad to Gohan in the Hyperbolic Time-Chamber. Then Cell Games, and he's dead, and he decides to stay dead? Which... I don't know if I feel comfortable making a judgement call on if that's being a bad Dad...? It probably is given the context around his death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/dragon-ball-super-chapter-38/chapter/8448

So Chapter 38 of the Dragon Ball Super Manga supposedly spoils how Broly will die in the new film, as it explains a lot about Broly's power being demonstrated by Kale of Universe 6. Cabba explains this theory in the chapter that once someone like Kale or Broly awakens it's all over, their power keeps growing, and they rampage until they basically self-destruct. It's definitely an interesting way of putting a cap on the limits of a Legendary Super Saiyan or should I say Super Saiyan Berserker because without it their power can continuously grow to the point where they could surpass a God of Destruction like Beerus or Champa.

I'm guessing it's Toriyama's way of wanting us to think of his Broly as this tragic hero who was being controlled by his father Paragus and has this power that he doesn't even know how to control to the point where it's eating him alive. By the time Broly goes berserk to the extreme he ends up surpassing Goku and everyone else only to end up self-destructing. We've seen this in the Tournament of Power arc where Vegeta ends up self-destructing against Jiren like he did against Majin Buu but ends up surviving instead of turning to stone due to his training with Beerus and Whis. If it's worth mentioning, in Episode 2 of the Super Dragon Ball Heroes Anime Cumber's evil ki made Goku go Super Saiyan Berserker.

On 7/21/2018 at 7:32 PM, Denithan said:

Also, I think a large issue with Gohan isn't the Adidas track suit, but the lack of training on his part. Which is just flat-out inexcusable because they have the hyperbolic time-chamber, which means that he can literally take a week off to train/study (with text books, because I don't imagine that room has internet) as like, an evening activity in real time. This means that he could actually be a really great father, and everything his own Dad wasn't, while at least maintaining his shape. And the fact he DOESN'T is actually a really big issue, especially with how much progress he made in what must've been around 20-ish hours of straight training with Piccolo. Threats are non-stop and constant, and his getting comfortable is an active threat because Goku and Vegeta are both incredibly unreliable.

Gohan never really had a rival to push himself past his own limitations where as his father Goku has had several. Same thing with Goten and Trunks which explains their lack of enthusiasm at the End of Z. In the case with Future Trunks, it was because of what Cell and the Androids did that pushed him to get stronger but it wasn't enough when Zamasu showed up.

Future Trunks was already in enough trouble with Beerus and Whis for tampering with time travel that they probably wouldn't have trained him hard enough to help tap into God Ki even If he were to train with his father in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber before fighting against Zamasu. Even If Gohan managed to tap into God Ki he'd still be outclassed by Goku and Vegeta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Card Slinger J said:

Gohan never really had a rival to push himself past his own limitations where as his father Goku has had several. Same thing with Goten and Trunks which explains their lack of enthusiasm at the End of Z. In the case with Future Trunks, it was because of what Cell and the Androids did that pushed him to get stronger but it wasn't enough when Zamasu showed up.

Future Trunks was already in enough trouble with Beerus and Whis for tampering with time travel that they probably wouldn't have trained him hard enough to help tap into God Ki even If he were to train with his father in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber before fighting against Zamasu. Even If Gohan managed to tap into God Ki he'd still be outclassed by Goku and Vegeta.

I'm not even talking about tapping into God Ki though, nor am I talking about him getting stronger. I just think it's terrible that he's not maintaining shape. The fact that by the time of Frieza, he'd lost his potential unlock and couldn't even use Super Saiyan for longer than a couple of minutes. That is actually just negligent. And I understand that there is a LOT of pressure on Gohan. Studying is a bitch, and it is incredibly frustrating. But even just taking a week/s off in the chamber to beef back up after his assignments are done for term/once he's done marking assignments would do WONDERS for his form, and would probably be incredibly relieving and helpful for him from a stress management perspective.

As for Future Trunks and God Ki, that's actually a really prominent thing that I never thought about. Why didn't they make him into a Super Saiyan God, and give him that starting point? Kid Trunks, Goten, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and himself, they have enough members to pump him up to the level at least to bring up his base strength, and to give him the residual God Ki needed for Blue. Whis and Beerus can't exactly do anything to stop them either, given that they bugger off for multiple hours at a time.
I can accept none of the others turning Saiyan God since they don't normally have enough Saiyans (Pan is too young to be able to channel her Ki), but when Future Trunks came back in time, that stopped being an issue.

Also, worthwhile side note, but the LSS blowing up after awhile WAS a thing in the original Broly movies. Or the original Z? It was how Planet Sadala was blown up, iirc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Denithan said:

I'm not even talking about tapping into God Ki though, nor am I talking about him getting stronger. I just think it's terrible that he's not maintaining shape. The fact that by the time of Frieza, he'd lost his potential unlock and couldn't even use Super Saiyan for longer than a couple of minutes. That is actually just negligent. And I understand that there is a LOT of pressure on Gohan. Studying is a bitch, and it is incredibly frustrating. But even just taking a week/s off in the chamber to beef back up after his assignments are done for term/once he's done marking assignments would do WONDERS for his form, and would probably be incredibly relieving and helpful for him from a stress management perspective.

Gohan's not just studying since he's also been busy looking after his mother, wife, and daughter. The Tournament of Power arc made him realize that he needed to become strong enough to protect his family but not so much to the point where he needs to keep up with Goku and Vegeta on a constant basis. However the End of Z contradicts this with Gohan not being as active in martial arts as he used to be with Goten and Trunks being pressured to enter the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.

23 hours ago, Denithan said:

As for Future Trunks and God Ki, that's actually a really prominent thing that I never thought about. Why didn't they make him into a Super Saiyan God, and give him that starting point? Kid Trunks, Goten, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and himself, they have enough members to pump him up to the level at least to bring up his base strength, and to give him the residual God Ki needed for Blue. Whis and Beerus can't exactly do anything to stop them either, given that they bugger off for multiple hours at a time.
I can accept none of the others turning Saiyan God since they don't normally have enough Saiyans (Pan is too young to be able to channel her Ki), but when Future Trunks came back in time, that stopped being an issue.

Also, worthwhile side note, but the LSS blowing up after awhile WAS a thing in the original Broly movies. Or the original Z? It was how Planet Sadala was blown up, iirc.

Probably because they didn't want anyone else to outshine Goku and Vegeta. Dragon Ball Super is basically the Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza show at this point so according to Toriyama If you're a part of the peanut gallery then you don't matter to him. At least he sort of made up for it by adding Roshi, Tien, and Krillin as part of Universe 7's representatives in the Tournament of Power arc even though it didn't really amount to anything. It's really a shame they wasted Future Trunks in Dragon Ball Super compared to the amount of respect he got in Dragon Ball Z though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Card Slinger J said:

Gohan's not just studying since he's also been busy looking after his mother, wife, and daughter. The Tournament of Power arc made him realize that he needed to become strong enough to protect his family but not so much to the point where he needs to keep up with Goku and Vegeta on a constant basis. However the End of Z contradicts this with Gohan not being as active in martial arts as he used to be with Goten and Trunks being pressured to enter the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.

Probably because they didn't want anyone else to outshine Goku and Vegeta. Dragon Ball Super is basically the Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza show at this point so according to Toriyama If you're a part of the peanut gallery then you don't matter to him. At least he sort of made up for it by adding Roshi, Tien, and Krillin as part of Universe 7's representatives in the Tournament of Power arc even though it didn't really amount to anything. It's really a shame they wasted Future Trunks in Dragon Ball Super compared to the amount of respect he got in Dragon Ball Z though.

Again, I didn't say that Gohan was just studying, it's just what's been established multiple times as being what takes up most of his time. But the Hyperbolic Time Chamber does flat-out present him the opportunity to do all these things, and still have some time for himself. And to be honest, Super's argument that Gohan has been training all this time with Piccolo in the background actually makes this a bit worse since he could very easily move what was a couple of hours of real world time into much longer stretches of time in the Chamber without issue. And straight up, he doesn't need to try and keep up with Goku and Vegeta, just maintain where he was in the Buu arcs/BoG arc. It is a lot easier to maintain strength than it is to build new strength.

I think a more pressing thing here is just that the people behind Super don't really use the Hyperbolic Time-Chamber for anything other than a Vegeta-Ex-Machina. Even going back to the Buu Saga, trying to teach Goten and Trunks the Fusion Dance in hard-time straight-up caused a LOT of people to die, when they could've had YEARS longer to perfect it and pump up Gotenks.
Don't get me wrong, I think having every major issue be resolved by the Time-Chamber is stupid; except that they're also kind of pulling that one |: Training for Cell: Chamber. Need to fend off Buu? Chamber. Need to beat down Goku Black? Chamber. Need to give Vegeta a power-gain for tournament time? Chamber. Toriyama and co. are very clearly aware of the chamber, and are fine with Vegeta having it, but Gohan taking like, a weekend off to train and relax with Piccolo in the real world equivalent of 5 minutes, as opposed to taking 3-4 hours off from everything in real time to do the same?

Also yeah, they straight up wasted Future Trunks in a LOT of ways in Super. And honestly, Super Saiyan Rage just pissed me off, and I think that could've easily been resolved by making him go God briefly given the soft-blue hue it had within it. It genuinely could've been introduced as what happens when someone without the Ki Control for Blue is channeling God Energy into Super Saiyan. But nah, Deus-Ex-another unexplained Machina.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/21/2018 at 6:44 PM, Card Slinger J said:

Doubt we're going to see Mastered Ultra Instinct again after the Tournament of Power arc since Toei pretty much retconned it to explain why Goku resorts to Super Saiyan 4 in Dragon Ball GT If we're led to assume that it will be officially canon after Dragon Ball Super and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. According to the trailer we just saw Dragon Ball Minus is officially canon as well which contradicts Goku being butt naked when he arrived to Earth after Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta before the events of the original Dragon Ball series when Grandpa Gohan raised him in Mt. Paozu. I guess it'll be nice to see Bardock and Gine in this new film.

How is it that when Gohan was in his Adidas track suit during the Resurrection 'F' arc people complained but nobody did when #18 wore her Adidas track suit during the Tournament of Power arc along with Goku and Vegeta wearing theirs in this new film? In the English Dub during the Resurrection 'F' arc, Piccolo even comments on this wondering why Gohan forgot his fighting gi when Frieza arrived back on Earth after he was resurrected with the Earth's Dragon Balls. People really need to cut Gohan some slack, Future Trunks didn't fare any better either after that deus ex machina Future Zeno pulled to defeat Zamasu.

Why is it that Gohan gets crapped on for being a better father than his dad but when Goku gets crapped on for being a bad father he gets a free pass? We're talking about someone who abandoned his own son to go train in Other World during the Saiyan arc only to try to make up for it during the Cell Games arc when it was too little too late. Krillin's had PTSD issues worse than Gohan has due to being used as a plot device so many times in order to help further advance Goku as a character and in the case with Gohan it was Raditz, Nappa, and the Ginyu Force which he parodies as the Great Saiyaman.

I for one don't give Goku a free pass, I really don't like his character. As far as Gohan though, with everything else going on with him, it just made him feel more like the jobber he had turned into. At least for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Warning. Opinions Inbound. 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 4:22 AM, Card Slinger J said:

Gohan's not just studying since he's also been busy looking after his mother, wife, and daughter.

I have a wife, 3 kids, full time job, college, and take care of my disabled mother regularly... I still have plenty of time to exercise and maintain my fitness. I do all that and I don't have a Time Chamber. The issue is that Gohan has access to this and a babysitter with nothing else to do that won't charge him and Toriyama still shit writes him into mundaness so that Goku can be the star. 

All serious joking aside though... Gohan was built up to be something amazing and then thrown to the side. It isn't so much we're giving Gohan a hard time but that we give Toriyama a hard time for building this character up just to propel Goku. Toriyama constantly screws up and then just goes, "but Goku guys! He's awesome and all you need!" So when someone gives shit to a character just remember they're really giving shit to Toriyama. 

On 7/21/2018 at 5:44 PM, Card Slinger J said:

Why is it that Gohan gets crapped on for being a better father than his dad but when Goku gets crapped on for being a bad father he gets a free pass? 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 7:32 PM, Denithan said:

That said, I don't think I've seen a single person on Top Tier defend Goku as a Father, or give him a free pass. Shit, the Dragon Ball Super manga specifically calls attention to this (with him stating that he doesn't even know when his sons were born, and Vegeta responding that he is a despicable parent).

Honestly, I don't see Goku getting a free pass on being a shitty father anywhere. It's literally one of the largest DBZ memes. I think the general consensus is that Goku is a bad father.

If Toriyama could let go of Goku I think something magical could happen. Hell, the Captain Ginyu moment was brilliant. He brought back a fun character and made him a real threat and just when he got warmed up... "derp derp... I'm Toriyama and forgot Goku is the star... derp derp... insta kill you, Ginyu... derp derp". 

Most threats are handled in this order... Introduce threat, threat is too strong, train, get beat up still, introduce new level of transformation, eliminate threat, rinse and repeat. If Toriyama put more limitations on transformations and forced his characters to overcome their opponents by outsmarting them and exploiting weaknesses and character flaws it might not be so obvious. The smartest moments in DBZ are when Yajirobe thought to cut off Vegeta's tail and when Vegeta thought to wish for Goku to have his energy replenished against Kid Buu. Closest thing to outsmarting through the whole thing. Everything else was just wait for someone to reach the next level through necessity. 

With Super there were some moments though that I really enjoyed. A Krillin moment that was needed, that Ginyu moment, ANDROID MOTHER F****ING 17... You know what... there are more but all you need is Android 17. That and Frieza actually playing a bigger role. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Majin Goo said:

If Toriyama could let go of Goku I think something magical could happen. Hell, the Captain Ginyu moment was brilliant. He brought back a fun character and made him a real threat and just when he got warmed up... "derp derp... I'm Toriyama and forgot Goku is the star... derp derp... insta kill you, Ginyu... derp derp".

I agree 100% that i would love to see them let go of Goku, and actually let the god damn others have some spot-light. But I'm still a bit meh on pinning it on Toriyama specifically. The dude did incapacitate Goku for 70-80% of DBZ so that we could specifically follow other characters, and it gave a lot of room for Krillin to shine as a fairly intelligent individual in the Namek Saga (and to a lesser extent in the Cell Saga). We also had some pretty amazing scenes with things like Tien holding Cell at bay at the expense of his life, and Piccolo getting huge power-ups (and overtaking the entire cast at that point). And he did build Gohan up to Ultimate.

And I want to clarify, because I keep defending Toriyama lately, the dude's not infallible. He made a LOT of mistakes with DBZ, and he has paid the series shockingly little attention over time (and he is responsible for Tracksuit Gohan. I think?) But judging from how his statements and how he's handled the show, he's fully intended for other characters to take over multiple times. Gohan was MEANT to be the protagonist following Cell; his editor and Japanese fans freaked out. Vegeta was meant to be the focus of Resurrection "F," we know that others stepped in because they wanted Goku to have a more central role. Considering that all he did was provide guidelines for Super, when we line up the anime and manga side-by-side, we can see roughly what he wanted. Doing so, we can see Vegeta was MEANT to kick Goku Black's arse, Vegito is meant to appear, Vegeta loses to Hit, Zeno kills Infinite Zamasu, Gohan is intended to be incredibly important for the ToP, and so on. Actual execution, and how Goku-centric it has been, seems to fall in large-part on the animation studio and Toyotaro. So fuck it, let's hold them ALL accountable.

The above said, we do need to remember that Resurrection "F" was inspired by fan song about Frieza. So, I think Toriyama's involvement is mostly just for shits and gigs at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toriyama's not the only one whose involvement with Dragon Ball nowadays is solely for shits and giggles, look at what Toyotaro's doing in the Dragon Ball Super Manga where he made Roshi go Ultra Instinct against Jiren instead of Goku. I've never seen an Anime and Manga of a franchise contradict so much of what they're doing to the point where it's literally just pointless fan fiction.

Dragon Ball is no longer Toriyama's passion project where it's just one man sitting at a table allowing his imagination to go unrestrained while crafting narratives. Dragon Ball has now become a committee that's being crafted by a marketing team where they can take these little ideas and farm them out to Toriyama for some vague outlines of some story lines that they're able to put across for whatever they're wanting to produce.

What made Original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z special was either completely glossed over or ignored in Dragon Ball Super. Characters used to bust their ass in order to obtain new levels of power where the training was just as much of the franchise as these levels of power were. Now all it takes is for someone to asspull their way out of a situation without any given explanation as to how they did it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, for the sake of clarity here, Toriyama only made 17 and 18 because everyone at Jump said that 19 and 20 looked ridiculous. Then, when everyone at Jump said that 17 and 18 just looked like delinquents and demanded he make something scarier, he went and made Cell.
And then let's not talk about the giant mess that was the Buu Saga, and how much back and forth there was between Jump's sales team and Toriyama's actual wants. That entire arc may as well have been written by them after the Great Saiyaman stuff.
He's also gone on record saying he hates how many transformations there are in this series. And I don't actually think anyone's listened to that.

So yeah, sat at a table, able to go unrestrained with his imagination; lel no. Not since Dragon Ball, and even then, Jump's sales team was VERY heavily involved with everything King Piccolo. This series was made to sell from the start, and every time Jump didn't like it, or the fans demanded something different, Toriyama was forced to change it. Probably the only reason we still have Goku as the protagonist.

But regarding the chapter itself, without actually seeing an English translation of Chapter 39, I don't mind what I've seen of it too much. The idea that Kefla was so strong was a bit far-fetched in the anime in the first place, so putting her around an Enhanced Ultimate Gohan's level doesn't bother me too much. Beyond that, and remembering that Dragon Ball was a comedy (or at least walked the tight rope of being one), Omen fading before Goku could land a single blow is god damn hilarious to me.

As for Roshi; that feels like a hot bag that needs to be unpacked. Partly because I genuinely hate Roshi to the point where I want him to be the one death that keeps (and goes to HFIL) in Dragon Ball. This joke of an old man whose threatening to assault literally any mildly attractive woman is harmful and fucking stupid.

But, strictly speaking, this isn't too dissimilar to stuff we saw him do in Dragon Ball's original manga. It's just on a bigger scale, with someone whose beyond Beerus, which sounds terrible at first until we remember that the dude isn't allowed to kill or even really critically hurt Roshi. For Jiren, it must be less than trying to swat a fly, and Roshi doesn't seem to ever really do damage as opposed to pester and annoy. I'll agree that it feels stupid, but we did always know that Roshi is a better martial artist than his students, he just lacked their raw power. So a condition that forces his opponent down to his playing field adversely advantages him.
What confuses me about your statement is; I don't think the manga is particularly trying to sell anything by putting Roshi in the limelight. I don't think anyone is particularly fond of him, or overly attached to him. I think that was just Toyotaro liking Roshi, and wanting to make him be the one who teaches Goku UI's secret.

 

As a whole though, Super has been disappointing to me. The manga always got bit more of a pass because it didn't have SUCH ridiculous leaps in logic or dismissals of character, and even now, depending on what the English translation says, I'm not too bothered by it. But ever since the ToP started, the manga doesn't spend enough time on anything and keeps blitzing through fighters and story points without ever making anything clear (and to be fair, this is a fucking big tournament and Toyo only gets 1 chapter a month with target dates that he has to meet).
At this point, I sincerely think Dragon Ball was a fluke, and anything afterwards was a mistake. Especially considering that Toriyama has admitted to forgetting plot points week to week, the sales team was VERY heavily involved in the making of characters and plot lines, and the author doesn't seem to like around 50-60% of what came out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×