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sh0ryu_repp4

Flute/SS3 "Errata"

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I was talking to my UFS group just last week about how Bandai doesn't really know how to handle competitive card games, and lo and behold this shows up:

http://www.dbs-cardgame.com/us-en/strategy/series4/bt3-032_and_bt4-045.php

I have been falling out of favor with this game for quite some time, and this really is the final nail in the coffin for me. Bandai clearly doesn't know what they are doing and this is the most pitch-perfect proof of it I have yet to see.

I haven't thought about this for a long time (since PanZ's end) but the thought is coming back to me, namely, how upset  I am that PanZ died for this. The flip side being that FanZ is the best PanZ ever was, but still, this situation just brought it back to my memory.

Anyway, for those still left on this forum, what thoughts have you? This errata does nothing to affect the meta in a positive way, and SS3/Blue, in general,  is still leagues above every other color and the few decks that could actively fight SS3 are, ironically, hurt by this errata.

Also, that "50%" figure in their post is BS. Phill had 29 out of the 32 top table with SS3, and the other National events were just as bad.

Also also (sorry I am just venting now lol) I am really sick of whenever Bandai makes these "Designer Notes" posts their responses are always backhanded, petty, and passive-aggressive. I have never heard a company address its player base in such a way.

I already made plans to travel to two UFS events later in the year, and I am going to be in Orlando at the time of the Nationals there and I have 0 interest in going. I think that speaks volumes...

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As far as hitting Flute where they needed to, I believe they did the right thing there. As far as SS3, I still think he needs to be toned down. He is still by far the Superior Leader for most decks. I'm not the greatest at balancing so I wouldn't even know how to suggest an edit to him to make him still different from what he is, but I was really hoping they were going to Errata him in some way. I still enjoy playing the game, especially with friends, and I think in future sets we will see the current meta shift more and away from SS3.
(namely because I feel like they are going to keep releasing cards that screw SS3 over in some way, or that is the feeling I get from their update) As a whole, though, I don't know how I feel

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This company is a PR mess and all of them would've flunked my course.

What bothers me is that these statements and decisions reflect that they are fully aware of the bullshit that is Swap SS3 Goku, and they saw that and went "Yeah, that's how we want this game to be."

Wish I could say something more, but these guys honestly seem about as incompetent with making a balanced game as Bushiroad is, and are so stuck up their own arses they won't let anyone say so.

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Damn. You know what's worst about this. I called all of their shenanigans from the start and then got blindsided by how gung-ho they were coming in. On the one side I hate that I was right but didn't listen. While on the other side there were a few key players from Retro pushing this game too hard and trolley like so I was turned off from it before buying in to catch up so I didn't put more than 50 in this game. 

I should have stuck to my guns the whole time though. 

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8 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

I would like to hear why you think that ISN"T the case

Set 6 was the best the game ever was.  Nothing FanZ adds is exciting or new, just new mps that jump levels, get allies, or a re-make of a Score card.  Sometimes all three!

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10 minutes ago, ChangelingBard said:

Set 6 was the best the game ever was.  Nothing FanZ adds is exciting or new, just new mps that jump levels, get allies, or a re-make of a Score card.  Sometimes all three!

I don't have a negative opinion about FanZ but I've always felt set 6 was the best state of the game. 

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6 hours ago, ChangelingBard said:

Set 6 was the best the game ever was.  Nothing FanZ adds is exciting or new, just new mps that jump levels, get allies, or a re-make of a Score card.  Sometimes all three!

I mean, I didn't play too much ScoreZ (just kind of up to the Cell Saga), but King Kai, Kami, and Majin Buu all play pretty uniquely when compared to MP's prior.

Shit, Dabura is also our first fully dedicated "Sword" MP (PanZ). Trunks only ever worked with Swords on the odd level, so that was pretty neat for PanZ. And let's not start pretending that this is what Dabura did in ScoreZ, since he was built around Focused Attacks (and shit, I don't even know what those are). Unless you're going to argue "It was touched upon, EVER, before, so it's not new," in which case, the hell would you do to make something new in this game?

F. Gohan is a mess, but also pretty unique for PanZ. And ScoreZ from what I can find on OCTGN. It was our first MP that was focused on specifically punishing the opponent's use of MP powers, and even if they took it a step too far, new is new.
And none of these MPs so far are based on level hopping o-O Shit, only King Kai is ally based, and Majin Buu is pretty fucking different from any ScoreZ counterpart I can find.

I'm going to say the onus of evidence is on you, since you're the one expressing it as unoriginal and/or derivative. And shit, if that's going to be your stance, I'm also curious to know how you'd make something that's not.

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21 hours ago, Denithan said:

I mean, I didn't play too much ScoreZ (just kind of up to the Cell Saga), but King Kai, Kami, and Majin Buu all play pretty uniquely when compared to MP's prior.

Shit, Dabura is also our first fully dedicated "Sword" MP (PanZ). Trunks only ever worked with Swords on the odd level, so that was pretty neat for PanZ. And let's not start pretending that this is what Dabura did in ScoreZ, since he was built around Focused Attacks (and shit, I don't even know what those are). Unless you're going to argue "It was touched upon, EVER, before, so it's not new," in which case, the hell would you do to make something new in this game?

F. Gohan is a mess, but also pretty unique for PanZ. And ScoreZ from what I can find on OCTGN. It was our first MP that was focused on specifically punishing the opponent's use of MP powers, and even if they took it a step too far, new is new.
And none of these MPs so far are based on level hopping o-O Shit, only King Kai is ally based, and Majin Buu is pretty fucking different from any ScoreZ counterpart I can find.

I'm going to say the onus of evidence is on you, since you're the one expressing it as unoriginal and/or derivative. And shit, if that's going to be your stance, I'm also curious to know how you'd make something that's not.

Friendo, we could go back and forth all day on this as you skip very obvious examples (MVegeta lvl hopping, Babidi allying, Dubura being Trunks/sword Gohan from Scorez, H18 being Krillin). I understand you like it, but it is definitely not the best the game has ever been.

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3 hours ago, ChangelingBard said:

Friendo, we could go back and forth all day on this as you skip very obvious examples (MVegeta lvl hopping, Babidi allying, Dubura being Trunks/sword Gohan from Scorez, H18 being Krillin). I understand you like it, but it is definitely not the best the game has ever been.

Oh, I'm not saying it's the best the game has ever been. That is going to be hugely subjective and up to your individual play group. I just don't agree with the notion that they're all unoriginal or derivative. A. Because it's dismissive and doesn't actually say anything,  and B. the fact that we CAN skip the "obvious examples" says that it's an ill-made generalization, especially when the criticism can be applied to PanZ prior really easily.
But to go through your examples there, I'm pretty sure M.Vegeta is our first FanZ level hopper, Babidi is our first ally-baiter who plays like Cell did (King Kai is a mess), I acknowledged Dabura being Sword-Trunks but also, he's the first Sword MP for PanZ and there's not much you can do with it, and I'd say H18 is closer to Yamcha than Krillin, but sure. We could also comment that Goten is Drillku. But even then, we're still working within the minority of the cards from FanZ, and it's very much deciding to keep your eyes glued to them.

If you don't like the state because of how it's restricted certain deck types, or because of the new frozen list, or even because the new MPs are balanced (unsuccessfully) around Drawku and Broly, or because they've refused to fix long-standing issues like Unleashed, or even because a lot of the content isn't tested prior to release (we've had a LOT of threads on that one and I still don't think it's tested), or shit, even just because of how long it takes for them to make it, yeah, go for it. There's still a lot of genuine criticism to throw at them in general, over how they've handled MPs like Pikkon and Future Gohan, how the FanZ tournament scene is (not to mention large gaps of activity on their blog), or whatever else.

But, come on dude, leverage something we can actually discuss that isn't so dismissive.

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On 8/22/2018 at 1:32 AM, Denithan said:

Oh, I'm not saying it's the best the game has ever been. 

Then why are we arguing?  Like I said, I find FanZ boring and unoriginal, you don't.  

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7 hours ago, ChangelingBard said:

Then why are we arguing?  Like I said, I find FanZ boring and unoriginal, you don't.  

I just thought the generalization was bad and argued that. Doesn't mean I don't think there's a lot wrong with FanZ, and I can pretty easily understand not enjoying it.

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I'd only call competitive (assuming people bring their A decks) FanZ boring. Maybe that's the only FanZ that matters but it's still fun playing with friends when we can.

I look at MPs like Videl or hero 18 as pretty interesting to tinker with. Then I look at nonsense like Future Gohan (especially when he could mix with "Gohan"), Supreme Kai, and Babidi where it's clear from day one I'm not going to have a good time playing against them. The unfortunate thing is: at the higher levels of play, that's what you're going to see.

I have many disagreements with card design in FanZ and I don't like the idea of bringing FanZ MPs up to Awakening Goku and Broly's level. I'd prefer if they just ban those two and we get fresh Goku/Broly stacks while keeping them and other new MPs at a midrange level of fair/interesting. I understand their mission statement of trying to adhere to Panini's model/thought process but they really should just do their own thing. Though one can argue they already are, especially with Orange...

As for Super, it needs an overhaul and a new business model. They got too cocky too fast. I don't even know how anyone can recommend the game to others except for extreme casual play. The highest compliment I can give at this point is that the cards still look nice but the game is a mess. It probably won't die any time soon but yikes...

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@Mysterious Youth Not to continue flooding this thread with FanZ, but I 100% agree with all your points. I think that they can still do a lot better, and that they kind of need to set things back a bracket or two to really give the competitive scene the freedom and variety they seem to want.

That said, I'm just kind of sitting out of Super now. The big thing I'm seeing (in England) is that it's kind of fading to obscurity as a result of a lack of official events or things to really engage with. There are a couple of spots in the country where it's common, but like, literally two cities, and done. Combine that with their generally shitty management and attitude when it comes to the game, and there's just not a lot of love for them to lose out here.

But it's DB, and it's got a fair amount of support from content creators and online personalities. It's not going anywhere, anytime soon at least for collectors.

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