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Visiting the Past and Orange Focusing Drill are frozen.

Overpowering Attack and Orange Meditation are limited to one.

It's a step in the right direction but they could've gone so much farther. There's a lot more unfair BS floating around in the game that nobody would/should miss.

Other than Orange bias, I don't know how Orange Attraction Drill and Orange Focusing Drill were allowed to coexist. It was a long time coming for Visiting the Past. Allies (potentially with Bojack coming out) are getting too much support and are hard to handle especially in Blue so I won't miss Overpowering Attack. Orange Meditation shouldn't have existed so now it exists less.

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2 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

Overpowering Attack and Orange Meditation are limited to one.

I... suddenly have to change so many decks to change o-o

The other changes don't really bother me too, too much. Orange Meditation going to 1 kind of surprises me, since it kind of felt like Blue Defensive Burst, but for Orange. My only real issue with it is that it has an attack attached to it, making it a live card at all times as opposed to just an MPPV-counter. And honestly, while no anti-MPPV card will ever bother me THAT much, I can see an argument to be made there for an errata to remove it's parenthetical.

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Does this mean the next champion deck might actually be aggro?

halfjoking aside, this legit suprised me. Vtp has been a staple for so long its going to be weird not using it. My promos have been reduced to binder bling. 

Also my favorite style to use happens to be orange so i feel personally attacked here. On the offhand, i now have 6 playsets of meditation lol 

Seriously though, makes me wonder if we’ll see some discard pile recursion to replace the loss of vtp. I like the game moving towards aggro but i dont want combo or control to die and vtp was definitely a powerful tool for both.

orange having a sphere for anger was just too good. Definitely see the reasoning behind this.

seems like attraction drill was made to replace focusing drill, part of my reasoning why we’ll maybe see styled/thematic replacements for visiting.

No thoughts really on op attack. While not as strong, sobering hammer still exists even it only fetches specific allies. 

...... so mant vtp in my binder now....

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Honestly, while I agree that VTP was a powerful tool for both Combo and Control decks, I don't think it's necessary anymore. The most prominent control decks in the game have some amazing tech ability to enable their comboes, and access to a great number of combat enders (depending on which MP you're running) to help survive Aggro beats. All VtP was really doing at this point in the game was hedging their bets and giving them an even easier time pulling things together, which is probably the main reason it was cut away.
This said, I can definitely see Adept Broly peaking in through the windows here. Hopefully, if that becomes too big of an issue, we'll see some kind of balancing with him.

This kind of logic is also why Unleashed is relatively untouched still, I suspect. It's still a necessary tool for a lot of MP stacks which otherwise can't pull together the anger to properly Level, and whose lower Levels don't have the versatility to camp. Not to say that Unleashed isn't still a win-more card, but we have seen it gradually phasing out of the meta except where it is absolutely crucial that the deck gain a Level or two.

I have been thinking about it though, and I kind of wonder if Overpowering Attack was hit specifically to help balance Blue. If so, then I think that might've been the wrong move since it hurts Ally builds in all the other styles while doing minimal damage to Blue. If not, and it's just to try and curb the scourge of Ally decks we have now, then I can get behind it.

I am curious @Mysterious Youth, what other cards are the big ones you'd have liked to see on there? If only for constructive conversation.

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TL;DR - I don't like the changes. They were made because a vocal minority complained about "not having fun" and the dev team gave in when "fun" has different meaning to different people and shouldn't be used to determine what gets banned.


For the full rant, see spoiler tag. Warning, wall of text incoming.


Honestly, the loss of focusing drill post chain nerfing attraction drill feels terrible. I get that people didn't enjoy playing against the decks that built the giant walls, but there were answers to it. Losing focusing drill and now having to rely on attraction drill instantly kills any actual viability for those types of decks. I know I know, people will say that they are good and that it was needed, but it really did feel like people were just playing mindless aggro into them and wondering why they were losing. There is a reason orange got knocked out in round 1 of the ToP and killing oranges best answer to mppv decks (Which was one of the ways to beat the drill wall deck btw, acquisition drill was not enough), plus opening them up to the plethora of board hate cards running around. I really don't get the obscene amount of orange hate the community has. Orange is strong, but it's not unbeatable by any stretch and taking away tools to protect your game plan..? Better ban Black Defensive Burst next guys, because it can just shut down beats decks!

 

Seriously, Red Tactical Drill made sense, it made anger completely uninteractable in a style where banishing it didn't actually do much since most of their cards that pull from discard also pull from banish and anger in and of itself is a win condition. But pretty much every other protection card in this game is terrible. Icarus? Laughable - doesn't stop crits from popping your other allies and doesn't stop parenthetical effects. Blue tag mastery? What tag deck actually only plays one ally? Also, only protects from crits. Blue Energy Shield? Again, only stops crits AND requires your opponent to be throw an energy attack first. Hope that attack didn't have any removal on it's immediate. Orange Focusing Drill? Only protects other drills from destroy and banish, which is probably the second best protection card in the game next to Tactical. However, Buu's Chocolate, Saiyan Transformation Drill, Black Declaration, Yamcha Ally, Acquisition Drill, and any applicable parenthetical effects (just like icarus, because parentheticals aren't card effects), plus a whole slew of other cards including but not limited to the handful of double hit cards like Majin Vegeta level 3 and Broly's eraser cannon. get around it. Orange Attraction Drill? True, if your opponent only has 1 removal and for some dumb reason doesn't target attraction drill this one can stop most any form of removal (Buu's chocolate and acquisition drill I believe are the only that it can't stop since those change control instead of removing from the field). But with it being limited to once per turn now and no longer protecting itself and also no longer protecting the target through the full action, it's not going to protect anything worth while. The only way Attraction was useful was combined with Focusing, because it forced your opponent who only relied on destroy/banish effects to either get multiple banish / bounce / spin effects per combat or play around your board state (Sin choke is a fantastic example of a card that quickly punishes these protection decks). 

 

There is no reliable way to actually protect board state. However, all aggro decks get their full effects from every card they play. Could you possibly imagine the amount of whining and moaning there would be if any style or (playable) MP had the ability to shut off immediate effects of styled attacks? Ox King already sees quite a bit of eye rolling at shutting off additional modifiers. 

 

I get it, control decks have been on the winning side of the game for a long time and people just want to play aggro. Did everyone forget Set 6 meta already? Broly for days! Best prepare for a 40-50% Broly representation at every event-hiyuck. Yeah... fun times there. While Orange did win worlds in set 7 meta, go rewatch the final match. Maybe I am misremembering myself, and so it's not quite as skewed as I remember it, but I seem to recall Sundeep playing that game extremely well where as his opponent had some MASSIVE misplays that cost him that game. It was a trying event that had gone on for hours and huge props to Sundeep for keeping his mental game together through such an ordeal, but it clearly had taken a toll on his opponent. Orange Roshi didn't win that much nearly as much as Red Goku lost that match. Set 7 was very much an aggro meta. After the massive nerfs to Trailing Blast and the BAU added to unleash, and drill memory being added to the game, Goku lost a lot of his OTK power (This is a good thing) and Broly / Goku lead the aggro meta while Restored Gohan was the only real deck that stood up against them. Admittedly, with set 10 and freezing the older masteries aggro saw a drop since Empowered is gone, but overall aggro has since been a huge part of this game since and been just fine in the meta. But I honestly think people have this weird misconception of what an "aggro" deck is. 


Most people will look at any deck that pushes survival victory through physical attacks as an "aggro" deck. In reality, a lot of these decks play more of a control style though. Take Dynamic Broly for example. While on level 2, you will play more of a board control deck while you bide your time digging for unleashed. You don't really put on the gas and push for the game until level 3/4 comes, so until then you try and fish for your opponents power cards and disrupt their game plan like a control deck would.  Compare this to say, Ruthless Dabura. Dabura won't try and fish for key cards and interrupt your strategy. He focuses mostly on his own strategy of draw more attacks then you have blocks and blast his way through. This is a deck that can fairly commonly throw between 7 and 9 attacks per combat, with the ability to still push decent damage through time (Due to level 4, Red Sword Slicing Drill, Dashing Sword attack, and Devilish Sword Strike all having immediates that drop stages) you can't just "Block his combo pieces" like most people think, and it only takes one bad turn for the game to heavily swing/end in Dabura's favor. Both of these decks are classified as "aggro" by the community and but the only thing they really share in common is that they both win through survival by throwing physical attacks. These combo decks I would say are the actual aggro decks, and are the real hidden gem in every meta that they have existed in. Personally, I hate playing against them.

These more combo-centric aggro decks like Dabura are rarely seen in the community, but every time they pop up doing well no one really complains about them unless they are doing old Red Ruthless turn 1 unleashed into trailing blast combos (already admitted this needed to be nerfed) but I would say losing to Dabura feels just as bad if not worse than not being able to interact with my opponents board state. I remember one game where I was the Dabura player and had Black Defensive Burst effect used on me for the first 3 combats. The 4th combat, I won. You think that was fun for my opponent?

What about Menace looping Raditz? He sure isn't winning anything and the only time I believe the deck has ever topped anything was with Tim Batow piloting it, but do you think any opponent has any fun when that deck goes off? Should we Freeze / limit Menace to once per game?

How about dragon ball decks? Who here LOVES being up like +30 cards on your opponent, them having one or two balls in play, you having one of theirs, they go into their turn, blind draw and play the other balls, entering and using red relaxation for game? Or you not having any of the balls because namekian was able to shuffle/protect from capture (Admittedly weird conditions on but GREAT example of what protection should probably look like for board states, except everyone would lose their mind) and them just drawing into a random ball victory out of no where. You have a lot of fun playing those games? 

How 'bout those combat enders guys? Aren't those just the BEST. I have a game that was recorded where I successfully ended every combat my opponent entered the entire game. You think he was having fun?

How about when I'm trying to build any kind of board state as orange, or god forbid a clench deck and I'm playing against anything trunks and thanks to aggressive sword drill he can just grab Knee bash every turn. is that fun?

How about when I play an ally deck and my opponent gets the tug of war effect off 4 times in one combat, followed by another combat with another 4x use. Think you would have fun in that scenario? (People are already clamoring for Blue Stylish Pose to either be nerfed or limit 1 like Overpowering Attack was just made, too)

I think you see the point. There are a TON of things in this game that feel bad. This game is very unique in it's interactions, and so of course when your wonderful game plan comes across something you didn't plan for it feels bad. So why should we be leveraging one or the other for a ban list? Whats fun for you is most certainly NOT what is fun for everyone else, and you winning because you popped off probably wasn't all that fun for the opponent. May as well just play Tough Enough only tournaments on OCTGN if all you want is beats on beats decks. Set 11 and arguably also set 10/10.5 were great balance wise. Yeah, some styles felt weaker than others, but results wise every play style had representation, so seeing a CRD that so CLEARLY has some biased in it despite tournament results is rather upsetting. Feels like the Saiyan oppressive nerfs all over again. Nerfed because it "felt bad" to play against, even though it was beatable and not this unstoppable machine people made it out to be.

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1 hour ago, Amanax said:

TL;DR - I don't like the changes. They were made because a vocal minority complained about "not having fun" and the dev team gave in when "fun" has different meaning to different people and shouldn't be used to determine what gets banned.

I had a couple of thoughts on your wall of text, but I can't be bothered to go through and pull out the parts I actually want to respond to.

One thing I feel you need to keep in mind is just because there are answers to a deck does not mean that the deck isn't problematic. You seem to counter any arguments against these decks by stating that there are things that can deal with it, but that logic will straight up justify any deck/card in the game.

In regards to people remembering the set 6 meta; Pretty much promise you they don't. One, because it was a long ass time ago, and two, I think a lot of the current player-base likely came in after the fact. Of course, I wouldn't say the majority did, but I also wouldn't dismiss them as a minority of players who came in with Set 7, or who only came in post-FanZ with the enchantment of a "fan-run competitive game."

I don't really have strong feelings one way or another with most of your other points. I can somewhat comment that all of the Orange hate 100% comes from the Retribution days, and the over-saturation of Orange decks that followed. Orange Bicycle Kick also did a hell of a lot to alienate people from the Style when it first launched off. Whether it was ACTUALLY competitive or not is irrelevant. This said, I actually don't think the removal of Focusing Drill is really going to hurt Orange's viability in any meaningful way.

Also, Oppressive 100% needed to lose access to MPPV. I don't care if the deck was TECHNICALLY beatable, or if there were ways to play around it, that card was badly designed from a future-proofing and balancing perspective. The deck heavily stacked things in your favor unless your opponent was specifically running Anti-MPPV (and I need to clarify, I AM someone who plays Anti-MPPV Blue decks competitively, I was fine), and it had a lot of potentially devastating interactions with Awakening Gohan, Goku and Vegeta on top of the Trunks builds. The sheer number of erratas and care with card design that would've needed to go down in order to keep Oppressive in check as things developed would've been unreasonable and unsustainable, and the Mastery was going to need some changes eventually anyway.

That said, all the other changes to that deck that came with Oppressive's nerf were completely unnecessary. Without MPPV, those decks weren't any more broken than any other deck running those same personalities.

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You make a fair point about newer player base. That was mostly referring to the retro ranters who I KNOW have been around since those days and not necessarily the player base as a whole. I'll be the first to admit my rant was not entirely focused lol. 

As for a deck having answers, the point I was trying to make was that almost any higher tier deck can already deal with it by either running tech cards (most of which they would run already) or by adding 1/2 cards they should have already been considering anyway if there groups they were playing with were so heavily saturated with board heavy decks. These orange combative decks have terrible weaknesses even in their optimal setups. They have no real answer to ally decks, no real answer to dragon ball decks, mediocre answers to MPPV (Especially now) and has all the inherent weaknesses of any non-combat heavy deck vs a truly aggressive deck. If a deck is bad against MPPV, DBV, and Aggro decks BEFORE tech cards are added It's probably not worth worrying about. Sure, keep an eye on it especially from a design perspective to make sure it doesn't get out of control, but why go out of your way to intentionally make it worse?

For oppressive, I wasn't just referring to the MPPV nerf. There was a series of nerfs that poor mastery received, the last of which was the change to MPPV, and every nerf pushing it more and more to only work with the MPs it was already working with and alienating the fringe MPs more and more. At one point, I actually had a functional Oppressive Cell Jr deck that was a blast to play (at least fun for me, as was my main point it often feels bad when things don't go your way in this game). The new version of the Mastery we ended up getting killed that poor deck. R.I.P. Cell Jr, you were playable for a whole week. 

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To be honest, you've probably got a good point about the deck not having needed the nerf. The primary reason I'm so blase about the nerf is because I genuinely don't think it does anything to the more versatile/competitive Orange decks, but I can get behind the entire sentiment leaving something of a bad taste when it's kicking a casual deck while it's down.

Also, because I kind of feel like throwing it out there, the deck also has no clear answer to Mill decks. It actually seems strange to me that the setup saw enough play to even have people voicing complaints when it seems more like a hard-counter to beats decks. Likely, the issues came up from it being top-dog among the more prominent casual settings, but it still feels like Forbidding/Restricting Skill Drain to 1 in YGO.

I actually don't remember any of the other changes to Oppressive tbh, so feel free to jog my memory. That said, I've not found the Mastery too lacking even when playing it nowadays, just that it kind of works as a lite-Empowered Mastery with less versatility.

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Depends on the deck I suppose. I know my Combative Trunks deck at least ran Deflection Drill and I was considering running Lookout drill on top of it (Since Vengeance Trunks can pull the non-styled drills for more Orange destruction fuel and it would protect me from two sources of mill per combat). But yeah, the other versions of combative I've seen have been pretty weak to mill.

 

I don't remember all of the nerfs, but the biggest one that got me was when it changed to the skip mechanic it is now (First styled attack). It used to be a when entering effect, something akin to "When entering combat, destroy the top card of your life deck. If that card was styled, your opponent skips their first action" so it was a forced blind mill attached to if that card was styled you get a first action skip. No sequencing around it, you just had to either be lucky, top deck with some card effect, or build with light or no non-styled cards if you wanted to rely on the effect. 

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While nobody will deny that there are answers to almost any specific card/situation, there's too much BS in the game unless you're playing on a casual level and even then there's a lot of garbage you just can't get out of. 

I also believe that Orange Drill wall decks will be fine or will still function. Attraction Drill is a far more fair Focusing Drill with the mill four. I don't think it needed the trait effect but short of Red Observation or Broly, those drills are going to hit the board and there's not much you can to do because they're just better at it than your couple of tech cards that may or may not have synergy with your game plan.

Without a side/Sensei deck, you can only tech for so many matchups but not without ruining your gameplan or taking out things you'd rather use. Perhaps that's just how people like it where you're meant to just auto-lose to specific BS (cards/interactions, not necessarily certain playstyles) or dead draw a tech card a lot of the time but I personally wish that weren't the case.

The CRD is clearly not a reaction to the Tournament of Power results. Hitting Orange because people complained makes some sense. In card creation they were biased towards Orange, why shouldn't a CRD react to said bias? It's less about "Why not hit everything that's no fun to play against then?" and more "Should these things exist? If so, why?"

Visiting the Past being a free card on your opponent's turn with little answers except NDB4 and Puzzler (all the way in set 8 and wasn't even a developer-made card) was nonsense. It should've either grabbed styled only or the "your turn swap" applied for either player's turn. The game didn't need this AND NDB7 looping Time.

I won't miss Overpowering Attack. The complaint with Allies especially post Tug of War is that they're too easy to get rid of. So let's fix that! Wait, now there's too many ways to get them back. Oops. There needs to be a balance to spamming the board which this game doesn't really have. Blue Stylish Pose does way too much and as a Setup, it's not even a dead card! Did it need Endurance? I wouldn't miss this card either.

As for some of my personal CRD choices:

Unleashed - It rewards too much with no drawback unless you want to argue running attached cards is a drawback. Didn't have a Sphere or attach Android Arm Breaker in time? Your opponent is likely way ahead of you unless you Unleashed back. It becomes a game of who drew it first. Did it make any sense for this to have the delevel part as well? The only way to beat Unleashed is to Unleashed back? What if they had more attached cards than you and leveled farther than your measly one level? I do understand the need for an instant level up card but this was way too good especially as a tutor for decks that need attached cards of which there are still few answers worth running. They should just freeze it and make something like:

(You can't win by MPPV if you use this card.) Search your Life Deck for a card that can attach to your MP and place it in play attached. Destroy any amount of attached cards attached to your MP to advance or lower your MP by that many levels.

Decks that use attached cards can't further abuse the card and there's an actual cost to leveling up now. It does what any deck inherently needs it to do. No more. No less.

Goku's Kaio-Ken - This in tandem with Unleashed and especially Awakening Goku is disgusting. Knowing that it's played with Awakening Goku should at least earn it a banish after use or limit. Is Goku destroying the meta? No, but as I said earlier: It's a matter of should this exist? I don't think so and I can't think of a justification.

That's off the top of my head. Otherwise, there's just going to be a lot of things you can't do anything about and some things are just too overdesigned for you to tech against. Just because it doesn't do anything competitively doesn't mean it should get a free pass.

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1 hour ago, Mysterious Youth said:

The CRD is clearly not a reaction to the Tournament of Power results. Hitting Orange because people complained makes some sense. In card creation they were biased towards Orange, why shouldn't a CRD react to said bias? It's less about "Why not hit everything that's no fun to play against then?" and more "Should these things exist? If so, why?"

I mean, I would agree with you if they actually hit anything with any kind of impact. Or really that served a purpose beyond making a niche deck work? Like, if they were going after Orange Bicycle Kick, I'd 100% understand that. Orange wasn't struggling without it and it is insanely strong, especially since it can be tutored for very easily. That is a card I can agree, doesn't need to exist.
I get Meditation as well. I don't agree with Meditation being limited to 1 since I think they should just errata it to make it less overwhelming. Drop the Parenthetical, or don't make it an Instant, because it's never a dead card, and it can catch people after they've wasted an entire turn of pumping anger. But limiting it to 1 is perhaps the laziest way to deal with that problem.

But dropping Focusing Drill? Like, if the issue with the card was that it was co-existing with a FanZ card, then change the FanZ card. |: Especially since Focusing Drill isn't an especially strong drill stand-alone, and doesn't have a dramatic amount of inter-activity otherwise. But in general, I'm of the mindset that if a FanZ card comes in that makes a PanZ card more imbalanced, then the FanZ card is what goes.

I do think we need Sensei decks though. I don't really understand why we're still avoiding them as a mechanic, tbh. Standardize the mechanic, because there's no point porting it over directly, but do something with it. It's a good concept for a competitive game.

I will actually miss Overpowering Attack though. Not because it's especially strong, or because it was overwhelming. Hilariously, it's not actually "overpowering" as a card. It was just a generic Ally-searcher that I can't even say was the problem. The strongest Ally decks all have an entire arsenal of other Ally searchers available (Supreme Kai, Babidi, Brohan, Cell, etc.), so the only people really caught in the cross-hair are off-the-beaten-road Ally decks who were maybe trying to net some board presence in weird builds. Shit man, I literally just did a quick once-over of all my Ally-focused decks in under 10 minutes, dropped 2 Overpowering, and plugged in a couple of easy replacements without really thinking about it.
But to use your thought process; Should it exist? Yes. Why? Because there are a lot of decks without any form of Ally tech available to them, and THEY are the ones who get caught in the crosshair. All the decks that could break it, don't need it anyway. So does Freezing it actually get to the heart of the problem?

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Yeah, the overpowering attack one just feels... strange. My Babidi deck, my primary ally deck, doesn't actually even run the card. Currently my only deck that does is my Resourceful 13, which is in Blue and will just use another blue card to be almost as good I guess? I don't get that one at all.

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Side note: It always bothered me that Kaio-Ken doesn't drop Goku back to Level 1 after the jump. I know that might've been a bit of over-balancing for when it was released, but it would've future proofed the shit out of the card, and made it more thematically accurate.

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2 hours ago, Denithan said:

I mean, I would agree with you if they actually hit anything with any kind of impact. Or really that served a purpose beyond making a niche deck work? Like, if they were going after Orange Bicycle Kick, I'd 100% understand that. Orange wasn't struggling without it and it is insanely strong, especially since it can be tutored for very easily. That is a card I can agree, doesn't need to exist.
I get Meditation as well. I don't agree with Meditation being limited to 1 since I think they should just errata it to make it less overwhelming. Drop the Parenthetical, or don't make it an Instant, because it's never a dead card, and it can catch people after they've wasted an entire turn of pumping anger. But limiting it to 1 is perhaps the laziest way to deal with that problem.

But dropping Focusing Drill? Like, if the issue with the card was that it was co-existing with a FanZ card, then change the FanZ card. |: Especially since Focusing Drill isn't an especially strong drill stand-alone, and doesn't have a dramatic amount of inter-activity otherwise. But in general, I'm of the mindset that if a FanZ card comes in that makes a PanZ card more imbalanced, then the FanZ card is what goes.

Oh, I'm not saying these were the Orange hits that needed to be. Just that it was reactionary to the complaints about Orange. Meditation shouldn't have existed in its current form or even its previous form. As a tech card, it really shouldn't be not dead against say Unleashed decks. My blanket statement about should things exist goes beyond the CRD even if it doesn't apply to all the new changes.

Absolutely agree that a FanZ card overpowering a Panini card should mean they review the FanZ card.
 

2 hours ago, Denithan said:

I do think we need Sensei decks though. I don't really understand why we're still avoiding them as a mechanic, tbh. Standardize the mechanic, because there's no point porting it over directly, but do something with it. It's a good concept for a competitive game.

I will actually miss Overpowering Attack though. Not because it's especially strong, or because it was overwhelming. Hilariously, it's not actually "overpowering" as a card. It was just a generic Ally-searcher that I can't even say was the problem. The strongest Ally decks all have an entire arsenal of other Ally searchers available (Supreme Kai, Babidi, Brohan, Cell, etc.), so the only people really caught in the cross-hair are off-the-beaten-road Ally decks who were maybe trying to net some board presence in weird builds. Shit man, I literally just did a quick once-over of all my Ally-focused decks in under 10 minutes, dropped 2 Overpowering, and plugged in a couple of easy replacements without really thinking about it.
But to use your thought process; Should it exist? Yes. Why? Because there are a lot of decks without any form of Ally tech available to them, and THEY are the ones who get caught in the crosshair. All the decks that could break it, don't need it anyway. So does Freezing it actually get to the heart of the problem?

I haven't thought too much about how to implement Sensei Decks, only that we don't have some form of side deck as that would REALLY alleviate main deck woes. Unfortunately, having a Sensei Deck simply means packing it with all the freestyle tech/hate like Wall Breaker, Tug of War, etc. things you normally wouldn't want to main. Everyone's side deck would be 90% the same depending on how they implement it. I don't know how you get around that.

I understand Overpowering Attack was supposed to be for everyone but perhaps they're just thinking that Red Ally or Black Ally will just never be a thing and the styles that can utilize Allies have enough to work with. This is a bad mentality to have in general as I'm sure there are other situations/cards that I think all styles should or shouldn't have access to.

This isn't the best example of my thought process but Overpowering Attack didn't need to exist if every style had access to their own flavor of Ally searchers. They don't, so this limit limits the game. When the game came out I was really irritated with Blue Betrayal because while it's a trash attack, it hits every kind of board card for free. Meanwhile Saiyan gets... Saiyan Sabotage. Then they got Saiyan Intimidation which they were forced to run if needed but at the time Saiyan didn't want to run planning cards outside of Enraged. They couldn't tack on one more effect? An anger, a rejuvenation, anything? AND it's banish after use? WHY?!!!

I've heard the argument that not all styles should be able to do everything or have access to everything. I've always disagreed with this because some things everyone should just have. Every style should have board hate that isn't offensively awful. Otherwise it's freestyle options IF they're available. Even when Overwhelming Power came out, what if you're an underdog? Too bad? Why did it take eleven sets to get something like Reality Check when we really could've used that in the early sets? Was something like this too powerful in the face of the Piccolo, Ginyu, Krillin meta? I certainly don't think so. No, it was more important to implement attached cards, something that shouldn't even exist especially without proper checks to balance it.

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So I guess the ultimate take-away about all of this is: None of these changes are all that game changing (except Visiting the Past), and they all lay bad precedents. Whether that be favoring a FanZ card over a PanZ card, half-haphazardly limiting a card instead of fixing it, or removing a largely necessary universal tool in what is perceptively an ill-conceived attempt to balance decks that didn't need the tool anyway.

None of the changes seem to be reactionary to actual Tournament results, or defining aspects of the meta, and it ultimately settles to feel like they're making a SHOW of changes and fixes without really doing so.

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From the beginning sensei decks were removed and I can't see how they can be implemented at this point. Every sensei deck will have wall breakers, Tug Of war, chokes...

I am going to give the FanZ guys a chance with this freeze and see how they follow up with the next set. Overpowering attack restricted to 1 and no VTP is an obvious nerf to conflict supreme kai, and the reasoning behind those changes might just be that simple. I personally think VTP is good for this game because its kind of a "comeback mechanic" in the sense that the larger your discard pile is the stronger it becomes. 

Freezing Focusing Drill is the same as freezing Tactical Drill from before. Both strategies can be dealt with but its super tedious and non-interactive. 

A fun idea might be just freezing all of Set 1. Look at all the Set 1 cards still being played. Namek Dragon Balls. Every Blue deck has head knocks, betrayals, neck beams. Every Black deck has power ups, searching techniques, defensive bursts. Every Orange deck has Stare down, the blocking drills. And before anyone says "Well i have a deck that doesn't use anything" I am going to say well win something win it, and I think freezing set 1 will increase that probability.  

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I actually think banning either is a silly move, but if it was one or the other, I'd probably say to ban Set 7 over Set 1. Set 1 mostly just gave us staples, which aren't a terrible thing since they tend to be more for board control/utility.

Feels like Set 7 was meta-defining in a much nastier way.

That said, I don't think I've seen the blocking drills in... Well, a long ass time. Was someone actually rocking them in the ToP?

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The thing with Sensei Decks is you would just implement them in the same way as Score Z. If I remember correctly, some cards had the key words Sensei Deck or Sensei Deck Only and these were the only cards that could be implemented in the Sensei Decks... Been a while but I'm pretty sure that was how they worked. If they make Sensei Cards with the Senseis then they can keep the power cards from clogging them because you wouldn't be allowed to use them in a Sensei deck.. Only make Styled Sensei cards and take care and time to make useful but balanced cards. Limit Sensei decks to 9 cards and remove the random placement when swapping cards.

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2 minutes ago, Majin Goo said:

The thing with Sensei Decks is you would just implement them in the same way as Score Z. If I remember correctly, some cards had the key words Sensei Deck or Sensei Deck Only and these were the only cards that could be implemented in the Sensei Decks... Been a while but I'm pretty sure that was how they worked. If they make Sensei Cards with the Senseis then they can keep the power cards from clogging them because you wouldn't be allowed to use them in a Sensei deck.. Only make Styled Sensei cards and take care and time to make useful but balanced cards. Limit Sensei decks to 9 cards and remove the random placement when swapping cards.

Can confirm, "Sensei Deck Only" was a thing

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I’ve put a lot of thought in how Sensei Decks could be implemented and here is where my work has led 
me.

Sensei: Sensei are martial artists whose strength, ability, and knowledge are renown throughout the 
universe. Sensei cards begin in play and you may only have one as part of your deck. They do not count 
towards your deck limit. Your MP and your Sensei cannot share names. Example: You cannot have Goku 
as your MP and Goku Sensei as your Sensei. You may have a Sensei Deck consisting of 0-9 cards placed 
facedown underneath your Sensei. These cards are not considered to be in play and cannot be 
interacted with except by a rule mechanic or text in a card specifically targeting the Sensei Deck. At the 
start of the first round in a match, only cards with the “Sensei Deck” or “Sensei Deck Only” keywords can 
be in your Sensei Deck. 

Sensei start the round with a number of Knowledge Counters placed on them equal to the number 
located where a PUR would be on a personality. As an action, or at the appropriate timing for your 
Sensei power, you may remove a Knowledge Counter on your Sensei from the game to use their power. 
If your Sensei has no Knowledge Counters their POWERS cannot be used, however, continuous effects 
on the Sensei remain active.

At the start of the round after personalities and Mastery cards are revealed you may swap cards from 
your Sensei Deck with cards in your Life Deck. Cards with the keyword “Sensei Deck Only” cannot be 
swapped into your Life Deck by this rule mechanic. After you finish swapping cards, your Life Deck and 
Sensei Deck must have a number of cards equal to the number of cards you began the round with. 

From a design perspective I would never allow Sensei to have a printed attack or a printed block. The 
knowledge counters help balance stronger effects. This provides an option between strong one time 
effects or decent and more reliable multi use effects. From my own preference, any Sensei that has 
draw or search power would be an auto 1 Knowledge Counter.

Example Sensei:
Goku Sensei
Knowledge: 1
Continuous: All attacks do +1 stage of damage.
Power: Banish the bottom card of your discard pile to draw the top card of your Life Deck.

Edited by Majin Goo

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I definitely see where you're coming from there with Sensei decks and the knowledge counters, and I actually don't dislike the idea. I also think the inclusion of Sensei Decks would also open up further possibilities with MPs who are designed to interact with their Sensei in one capacity or another, or even ones who are designed to specifically not have one.

That said, I think you'd need to put down hard design rules when making the Senseis to make sure they're not too disruptive to the current game and remain mostly optional.
To that end, I think any Powers that search/draw should be high/middling when it comes to costs. An extra draw per turn can get overwhelmingly strong very quickly, as Awakening Goku has proven, and Dabura, Trunks and Supreme Kai have proven that searching for cards is... Well, a good way to stack things further in your favor quickly.

Secondarily, I think there'd need to be a hard rule that no Sensei has more than 1 power. Going by your example, you'd be giving Goku EITHER the extra draw for a decent cost (say 3 or 4 Knowledge), OR a constant Stage gain. I think this ones largely important so that we don't get any one Sensei who does too much (making it a nightmare to further differentiate future Senseis), and it essentially forces them to be balanced at the design stage, or at least keeps them easy to fix if they do cause issues.
I know there's always the argument that they can get around overpowering Senseis by being careful, but all it takes is a few combinations/interactions that they didn't see, and things get complex. I also know there's the argument that this keeps things too simple, and is "boring." To that argument, I say gtfo, this game is complex enough with enough weird interactions |: If you want to KEEP adding things to it, then you need to make sure it's relatively simple and easy to grasp.

Thirdly, I'd really emphasize that the Senseis are ONLY characters within the series who actually FIT the role. So no Vegeta-Sensei, or Frieza-Sensei, or what not. Focus on things like Mutaito, Roshi, King Kai, King/Piccolo, Bibidi & Babidi (they fit in well-enough), Android 20, Whis, Mercenary Tao (and brother), etc.
This is mostly a nitpick, but the majority of the teachers we've seen in Dragon Ball haven't actually been that strong, or that absurdly well-known in the grand scheme of things. Flavor is important, damnit |:

Fourth, try to avoid generic Sensei Deck cards where possible. Make it a bit more specific. So if you have Goku-Sensei, have a specific Kamehameha that correlates to him as a Sensei. In tribute to Drillku days, you could even make it a riff on Goku's Kamehameha, and make it banish any number of Drills on both sides of the board. This stops you from trying to tech for every single thing in the game.

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With my design you'd only get the draw once. Goku starts with just 1 counter. The continuous actually hurts and helps because it is ALL attacks. Which was a thematical balance since Goku likes screwing his own team for the sake of fairness. It sounds like Goku to give your opponent pointers on doing more damage just to make it fair and to make your fight or training more meaningful regardless of if his student sees it that way. 

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Ahh, I see where you're coming from there. I was under the impression that Knowledge would work like PUR, where your Sensei would gain a certain amount per turn, and then you'd get to spend it on their powers.

While I can see how yours makes it easier to balance, I'm not going to lie, I was kind of getting into the idea of it being like PUR so that you could make Freestyle cards that spent/interacted with your knowledge counters. Something like:

Sensei's Advice
Event
(You cannot win by MPPV if you use this card.)
Remove 6 Knowledge Counters from your Sensei. Advance or lower your MP 1 level.

And then having a couple of Senseis with really high Knowledge, but who either had a terrible Power or straight didn't have one, that were intended to just provide fuel for this kind of play-style.
I do like the thematic element of that Goku though, and I definitely respect the strategic element that comes with only getting 1 use per game. It's also a lot simpler in terms of keeping track of the board.

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