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Amanax

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Amanax last won the day on April 18

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  1. The biggest advantage to Ginyu is he can pull any ally from deck as an attack without a condition to be met. At the same time, he consistently drains his own stages with said attack to allow you to pass control to his allies. Your right. By himself, his kit isn't very impressive by todays standards. Much like tag mastery, it's about versatility and the ability to adapt by pulling out a key ally for a situation. Though personally I have always liked the machine gun approach, putting all the attacking villain allies into a deck along side Burter and Guldo plus another mod here and there. Next thing you know all of your attacks are doing like, +4/+4 or at least +4 stage /+2 life (Burter+Guldo) and those little 1-3 stage attacks from those allies start to add up every turn lol.
  2. My Red Buu Ball is by far my best deck to date. Even as I'm playing it, I can see the frustration that it causes my opponents, and I can see why you would be annoyed with the archetype. But I love my Buu deck so please no nerf I have been thinking about that Ginyu - the more I think about it the more I agree that black Ginyu has some power. I think you would be forced to level 1 camp though, just due to the sheer recursion pressure that Possessive Drill + Shenron creates and black / villains not having a good way to get that drill back after the level up. That being said, I'm having a hard time picking my allies. Shenron obviously makes the cut, Raditz sounds fairly strong to me, Guldo is too strong not to bring... Do I bother with the other Ginyu Force? Beerus could be cute with Mischievous mastery. I feel Chilled and Cooler could be really useful so no one can level hop and can't force me to a level I don't want to be on or attach cards, but that also means I can't run Black Capture (With Chilled). Same with Nappa vs Raditz, they don't really seem to get along, but it might be worth having him in the deck and just not pulling him unless in a specific matchup but that's potentially dead space in the deck which I'm not a fun of. Suggestions?
  3. Stomach Crusher is the card I was forgetting. I knew I used to run something in the older sets but couldn't remember what it was. Might sneak that back into some decks. Tag Broly does sound fun, but Jaith I like where you are going with Ginyu. I have kind of off and on been poking at Ginyu here and there everytime I build him though I end up blue so I can get back my banished allies and then wonder why I'm not playing Gohan since he can do whatever my strategy was but better. Black Ginyu does sound interesting though. Still have to worry about getting your allies banished, but you have access to some good tech from black to try and snipe the opponents cards that banish. I might give that a try, especially with Raditz being able to grab those powerful black setups and Possessive drill acting as a backup to Shenron. I also agree with Jaith about DB decks vs oppressive. It just takes one turn of them being able to cap balls and you are toast, especially with Saiyans reveal to crit cards for both Goku and Broly, and then Vegeta has access to things like his Galick Gun to double crit. There is a world where you could just continuously keep your balls uncapturable, but.. I don't have much hope for that match. I'd rather be ascension raw anger and punish their combat ends by furthering my win con lol
  4. Yeah, testing last night at least was Majin Vegeta > Oppressive whatever MP which kinda confirmed our theory that the Majin Vegeta decks that came across these Oppressive decks either couldn't get to 2 fast enough or were pushing to 3. Because of this, I am actually starting to like Rampaging Majin Vegeta WAAAAY more than I had previously (I was a Ruthless believer before with all the level hopping and discard pile interactions he could do). But I agree Jaith, it doesn't seem like it's enough to really push these decks to the side like I would have expected, especially when Oppressive is coming out on top in multiple events against a variety of opponents. Okay, so we're ignoring the clench oppressive deck for now - All of the other decks rely on combat enders to avoid just getting pummeled after they have used up their hand right? Also, Saiyan's primary form of card advantage is through card draw. That would make me lean towards Mischievous and then a way to stop them from ending combat. The first thing that comes to mind is the Villain ally, Paragus. Are there other freestyle answers that I'm not remembering at the moment?
  5. Yes I do agree with the Empowered-lite thought about the mastery. I forgot to put that in my initial post, but it certainly matters. I had a game just the other day where I was testing Drawku vs Ruthless Majin Vegeta. He started the combat on two but leveled to 3 in the first action. I was pretty low on stages, letting his attack hit but then since he leveled I just chained a few attacks together and gained all my stages back. Was very reminiscent of the old Empowered Broly vs Ruthless Broly matchups. Both could pump out some serious damage, but Empowered usually came out ahead in that fight just due to the passive stage gain giving that buffer to pull ahead. For the most part I agree with the MPs already being good. Kid Trunks is certainly an outlier, but Nappa (With Clench) is a beast, and Drawku / FreeGeta have been good pretty much since release right there with Broly. With the exception of Kid Trunks though, all of these MPs also have access to damage modifiers as well. I wonder if this is still needed to really succeed with Saiyan or if another power house Saiyan MP like Future Gohan can also make use of the Mastery / Style.
  6. So now that West Kai is over and the competitive scene is coming to the final stretch I think it's safe to take a look back at this current season and wonder how and why a season full of Majin Vegeta is seeing Oppressive Mastery winning multiple events. Over the next couple of weeks I plan on making a couple of Oppressive Decks (I've already had my own versions of Oppressive Goku and Oppressive Clench Nappa) and analyse exactly what about them is making them tick. Is it really the skips? Is it the hand filtering? Is it just the overall utility of Saiyan (Or in Clench's case the raw power of Clench)? There are three decks that have topped the last three events. In order, we have Kid Trunks, Goku, and now Clench Nappa. I didn't have the pleasure of playing against the Kid Trunks deck as I wasn't at that event, so I won't speak so much to that as I will the other two. With Goku, Jesus built that deck for hand filtering and pushing unpreventable damage with 3x AK, 3x Sludge Bomb, 3x Rapid Fire, and 3x Sinister Choke. He had middle of the pack levels of anti anger, really only relying on the 3x Burst and then crits from his other unpreventables, oh and the 2x Dashing Punches. Those played a pretty big role. Playing my own version, which isn't quite as fine tuned as this particular deck, I like the skips giving me either stages or anger because Goku gives you so much potential to level with the addition of his Kaioken that the anger isn't usually needed to see those higher levels. The hand filtering is FANTASTIC in this particular deck. The chain skipping into combat enders is cute, but runs out of steam faster than, say Oppressive Vegeta would but they still let you get some decent poke damage through without too high of risk yourself. Even when playing against Majin Vegeta level 2 who shuts down your mastery pretty hard, you are still Drawku and have access to a lot of power cards. All said and done, the deck is solid though not unbeatable. I think it's biggest weakness is the lack of anti-anger options it brings to the table. Without some luck getting dashing punches to land it might see some difficulties with a true speed MPPV deck. Solid though, like I said. Ty's Oppressive Nappa - I don't have much to say on this. It's a Clench deck and it does Clench things. I've personally always liked Oppressive Clench over Rampaging Clench. Sure, you lose the ability to pitch blocks and dive for decent to fantastic damage, but the skip actually plays a big part in this deck. Throwing an attack 20+ stages followed by another 20+ stage attack without giving your opponent a chance to recover can be deadly. Denying opponents the ability to use stages as much as possible, and if he enters enough he WILL catch you without enough blocks. However, the deck has the same weaknesses as always. Anything with solid answers to the attached Clench Card (Especially Buu who can rip them just for taking damage) will put some real hurt on this deck. Also, decks that can hand filter effectively (Ball 3 abusers) to cycle those bad hands tend to help. Very fun deck to play, but overall I think less reliable than the Goku. What is everyone elses thoughts on oppressive decks? How are you beating them, what are you noticing about them that are allowing them to beat you? I'll be testing out an Oppressive Goku and Oppressive Future Gohan deck this Thursday if all goes well and will provide updates.
  7. It is still being used. They just set up (or are settings up...?) an OCTGN DBZ tournament called the WMAT in the facebook groups.
  8. Only got two games in with Tao last night, but were against Majin Vegeta and Broly who is one of my expected bad match ups. Can't remember which match was which, but completely took the first game by surprise. Unleashed up to 3 early in the game, got a dodon ray attached with double android programming. It was a brutal game for the opponent. Second game didn't go quite so well. Lost all 3 unleashed in the first 9 cards of the deck (including my opening 3 card draw), failed to get dodon ray or black capture to stick all game, only got off level 1 in the later stages of the game and never got above level 2, ended up getting stuck in a couple of bad combats and STILL managed to get the opponent down to 8 cards left. Literally everything that could go wrong felt like it went wrong, none of my standard win conditions went through and still bringing it to a close game gives me a ton of hope for the deck. To your point about krillin over roshi, krillin is a strong deck but didn't bring quite what I was looking for when I did the swap to Roshi. I wanted the out of combat mill with all the cards that banished discard pile at the beginning of a turn causing mills from Roshi's ability which would then allow for top decking outside of combat. Krillin is better in combat, but has no way to trigger out of combat top decking with absorption drill. Orange Frieza is a monster of a deck, and getting Frieza's arrogance consistently to get your allies out plus making your nova unpreventable can truly be a game changer. The biggest reason I want Bojack to work is he has level changing in his kit with the galactic buster, has board removal with his named card, has anti anger on most levels, has more ways to make his damage unpreventable or use the same card to generate card draw so you can extend combats. He has all the hallmarks of a good MP... Or at least that's how I feel about him. lol
  9. It's 0. You basically get to choose which order the reduction applies. So apply the mastery reduction first, reducing cost to 1 and then apply 18, reducing it to 0. So long as you apply 18 last, you can always get around the "this effect can't reduce a cost below 1" clause on amplified.
  10. I've been in a mood for deck building it seems lol. I want to find my next Red Buu Ball, but no luck as of yet. The deck I was having the most fun with was probably Mischievous Bojack. The deck had a lot of fun interactions, including things like Black Destructive Beam to temporarily banish Nefarious Plot, give me the card draw and then at the end of the turn return Nefarious Plot to play to be used again the following turn. However, the deck folds HARD to anything with aggressive stage beats. Majin Vegeta, any resourceful or adept deck, older Broly.. they all put my variant in the ground. So I've moved on from Bojack until I figure out what I want to do about that weakness since those decks aren't exactly uncommon. Orange Adaptive Yamcha has continued to prove that he can do monstrous things. Orange Absorption Drill mitigates so many normally deadly match-ups it is pretty crazy. Just have to make sure you can get it out and make it stick when it matters. But even without it, the deck can level like crazy and once on 2 or higher (especially level 3) the decks damage is top notch. Due to the way Bojack played most games, it made me want to build a deck that more specialized in picking my opponents deck apart (Searching Technique, Scout Maneuver, Malicious Intent, Black Knightmare, Black Schematics, etc). With Bojack on the back burner I've gone through an MP / build or two per week to try and find something to scratch this itch. Started off with Cooler, with his rebirths allowing me to bring back key cards from banish and I decided with that build to try conflict with all their new toys. Deck had a HARD time getting off of level 1, which is a bad place for cooler to be normally. However, the deck functioned surprisingly well despite it. Lots of stage gain to mitigate incoming stage damage, lots of ways to filter out my opponents cards so I could start shaping what the end game would look like. I especially had fun against anger gain decks thanks to Trick Shot and then rebirth recurring trick shots back into the deck. However, the only games the deck ever won were the rare instances it managed to just draw the "right" cards. But it seemed to turn every match into a close game. So I decided to try out Mischievous Roshi , running the same concept but taking out the hand discard mechanics from Conflict and replacing them with discard pile removal to trigger mill effects from Roshi level 1. Deck was cool, but I actually don't think I won a single game with the deck lol. Between getting pushed to level 2 by my opponents either feeding me anger or force leveling me and then opponents running heavy board removal or just plain being caught in a single bad combat against the wrong deck, it just struggled all around. So on to the next deck I went. I played around with Bardock, back to Bojack and Cooler as they overall tested the best but couldn't quite find the right builds for them so Bojack is still sitting on the shelf and currently working on a Mischievous Majin Vegeta and Mischievous Tao. I've only had the chance to do internal (against myself testing) with these two so far, but both have tested much better than the earlier decks. M. Vegeta has shown that it can gain anger in ways that make it hard to stop him from leveling, plus has all the discard pile hate that the stack can bring to the table, plus has shown to have surprisingly high burst damage potential. The deck does however seem to suffer a little bit on damage per action if that makes sense. A lot of the black 2-anger cards are not the hardest hitters out there. My favorite interaction so far from that deck though? Having Punt attached for massive "what" moments from Vegeta level 1's added hit effect to your next styled attack. As for Tao, the deck can do some STUPID things. It's running 9 combat enders, 10 omni-blocks, it's got access to Absorption Drill (Though post errata this card has lost some bite) and has some sneaky ways to get Black Capture attached to join Dodon Ray. Plus the decks obvious synergy with Black Android Programming (B.A.P.) giving Capture and Dodon Ray a nice boost, but thanks to Unleash and B.A.P. Seeing Tao's level 3/4 isn't unheard of, and you know what's fun? Throwing any attack and immediately forcing your opponent to banish the top 2-3 cards from their deck before you even get to the immediate effects of your attack. I'll see this upcoming Thursday how well the Vegeta and Tao do in external testing though. Internal testing has lied before (Looking at you Ascension Pikkon) so fingers crossed they continue to perform.
  11. Gohan interacts with orange charge the same way as everyone else. Gohan doesn't turn the attack into a styled attack until you are performing it (With some strange timing windows that get around cards that stop your opponent from performing non-styled attacks). While in the deck, cards are still their original style (or lack there of). It's awesome to hear that the deck worked though! I was worried that it was going to be too convoluted. Sounds like the mixed damage profile does have the potential to flop, like you said, with just some bad luck. I imagine well timed blocks can really ruin your time as well. Like letting the first head charge hit and then blocking the sword chop / second charge. Did you see any issues getting your damage through against a more defensive deck? You mentioned Supreme Kai, which I would have expected to be a pretty hard match given it's ability to sculpt hands.
  12. Orange Examination Drill. You can use this with all of your hit effects to throttle your own anger? Okay okay, I got you. What about.. Adept Sword Tien? Just go ALL in on what you were already considering. Lets keep that tutor engine going! Running Aggressive Sword Drill makes it so your Draining Blast and Tri-Beams can't have damage prevented. Like you mentioned, sword chop can fetch out Targeting (It can also grab prep if you wanna throttle the opponents anger). You want to go in with non-styled combat cards, well this also gives you access to the attack cards like Devilish Sword Strike and Dashing Sword Attack. Dashing Sword Attack can fetch your lost Sword Chops if they hit the discard pile. Use defiant Challenge as you already suggested to give you more ways to fetch your named cards. Okay, this will actually take a LOT more work than I anticipated. Basic thought process, build the deck like a Yu-Gi-Oh! deck. Instead of looking at individual power cards and "staples" you include as much tutoring, draw mechanics, and "engine" pieces for your combos as possible to maximize your consistency. My biggest concern, is that your primary card is Sword Chop, which is Banish After Use. You would be running two primary "Engines" in the Sword and Tien packages. So that probably gives you roughly 21-23 cards. Then you have support for each of those engines, cards like Defiant Challenge, which gives you direct tutors for your named cards, maybe cards like Orange Hoping Drill that make your opponent mill when you play a sword card. As was already mentioned, Examination Drill to help you control your leveling, maybe Freezing Drill so your opponents' options are limited for responses to your combos. I would say Spheres and Confrontations so again, to limit your opponents options to deal with your game plan. Bicycle Kick so you can filter your drills out for ones you need right now. Orange Power Point / Orange Extension / whatever you want for direct Drill tutors (Depending on Mastery you also have Orange Memory). You have hand filtering cards like Orange Luxury, Orange Possession Drill, and Orange Affection Drill that might be useful to filter out dead combo pieces for live ones. I don't know if it'll work. Last time I built a deck like this I build a Babidi deck that only had 5 total attack cards in it lol. It was fun but fragile if interrupted. I am curious to hear how it goes though. You should keep us (Or at least me maybe?) posted on the decks progress.
  13. I wish I had the list for the Tien I helped build because clearly I am misremembering some parts of it like with the level hop blocks. We chose to do the level hop build because the idea of camping level 1 seemed nearly impossible. It's not like people don't know that your level 2 isn't great and with all of Tien's good named cards giving him anger, you will level if your opponent ignores your anger. You could try to put in cards like Stomach Dive, Forward Stance Drill, and other anger spenders to try and keep your anger in the 2-3 range (Which also would promote the use of Red Despair Drill). If you ever get set up it could mean some serious punching power... If you get set up. How do you guys feel about Red Announcement in the deck? You're not alien so it's not named, but it still gives you another way to dig for your tri-beams
  14. The cool thing about red Tien is Red has plenty of ways to level hop, and if you are level hopping in red as Tien you also get access to Red Trailing Blast. So Trailing Blast, Unleashed (Remember, you can go up or down), Tien's named cards (Prep, draining blast, Tri-Beam, targeting, and Solar flare), Red Focus, Red Tandem Blast, the level hop blocks, On the Move!s, spheres/confrontations so you can try to not get fully shut down by your opponent drawing Time. Oh, can't forget Red Leap just in case your tri-beams trigger it for the bonus damage. That's always fun. That's 43 cards assuming max counts of each. I would probably run it as Ruthless with the original level 1. New level 1 is cool and will probably get more love if, as you said, more of the new masteries have when entering effects. The consistency of tutoring your named cards with the old level 1 is just so.. Tien. Helped a buddy build one for Grand Kai, and the deck is the same as ever. It wins fast or loses fast. They are rarely boring matches though! If you are considering Tien, I would strongly consider it. It's a fun all out aggro deck to play. ~edit~ The level hopping blocks might actually be a bad idea... Forgot that you might lose your trailing blasts at the end of combat. Might still be worth it, but might be really disappointing if you manage to get all three attached and lose two of them
  15. Yeah, makes sense. The free drill tutor is pretty good in that scenario. I just wonder if the added survivability would be worth it. Just spinning ideas.
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