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Denithan last won the day on March 18

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About Denithan

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  1. We do have spoiler tags, but for the life of me, I've never figured out how to use them properly. To be honest though, you've kind of captured what I loved about IBO right there; it was not scared to kill off it's own main cast, and that always kept me on my feet while watching it. It also helped with those more lighthearted moments, because it contrasted with the bleak reality of their world. Weirdly, I think this is how Gundam functions best. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Build Fighters (didn't like Try either though), but it lacked the same impact of other series. But even with how much Gundam really focuses on war, and the horrors of war (SEED, Wing, 00, Unicorn, Mobile Suit Gundam, etc.), IBO feels like one of the only ones to really explore how violent and deadly it really is. Also, the Vijnana system is so much more blood-chilling and plausible than Newtypes and SEED Factor |: That said, you can probably guess it, but I would actually place Wing and SEED among my favorite Gundam series. Partly because I grew up with them, so nostalgia, but going back to them now, they make some interesting commentaries. After that is probably (definitely) Zeta Gundam, which I've always found the archetypal Gundam series. As an aside, I'm also a fencer. I've never been a modeler though, unfortunately.
  2. I'll give you that it took a lot of hits from the Serpents to really damage the Gundams, but it is worth noting that they didn't really manage a clean hit with anything more than their gatling guns. In terms of actual specs though, the Serpent is flat-out an upgraded version of Heavy-Arms. The big difference in performance mostly comes down to pilots and the fact that the Serpents were even LESS maneuverable than Heavy-Arms (which is really saying something). But honestly, I'm not the biggest fan of Endless Waltz because of how it uses the mobile suits. I actually really like the redesigns of the Wing Gundams, but it never really does anything with those designs and the battles are secondary. It sort of works, because Wing was a series much more focused on rhetoric and philosophy, but it just felt like they didn't really know what to do with what they had. Rant aside, I was really more talking about the Virgos and their corresponding parts. I'm still not sure why they're not Gundams given they're made of the same stuff, but... Eh? Heck, even the Taurus was a really prominent threat prior, and the Wing Gundam gets shot down near immediately after Heero encounters an experienced enough pilot (who was admittedly a homage to Char, but every Gundam series has one). It just always felt more like Wing was more concerned with the mass-production/distribution of weapons than on the super-weapons themselves? I freaking love IBO if it's worth anything. I've never really gotten a lot of the issues people had with it either? I welcome that it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it was kind of refreshing as a Gundam series. I'm a bit more partial to the Vidar personally though. Not huge on the Kimaris Vidar, but Vidar pre-upgrade just... Does something for me?
  3. ... why didn't I think of that? I love it. Especially with Cooler |: All of the punishment. On the topic of Ginyu, I'm really curious what his main draw is to you guys. I wasn't really around during the early days of PanZ, so I never really saw him at full-strength, and nowadays, his toolkit seems a bit... Lacking? A named Level Up is rather strong, and I can see the utility in Captain Ginyu's pain. His power letting you pull any Ally without hitting also seems mighty strong, especially for an old MP. He also has access to Recoome, but this still all seems underwhelming next to MPs like Frieza. Like, taking Frieza - Resident of HFIL and Frieza - Golden as your alternative, you have an MP which instantly jumps to 2, can rejuvenate named cards from banished zone (and through Frieza's Arrogance, grab an ally in the same fashion as Ginyu can), brings more synergy with Chilled/Cold/Cooler, can restore their own stages, has some pretty strong AT defense, comes with a named Omni-Block, gives access to Supernova, and... Yeah? Probably completely ignorant to what makes Ginyu a strong option, but that is why I am asking xD Like, historically, he was insanely strong for his time and came well before the game was ready. But nowadays, he feels like standard fare?
  4. Freestyle: Suppressive Strike, Stomach Crusher, On The Move!'s parenthetical (stops a skip technically, but that disrupts their gameplan a lot), and I think that's it? Styled: Blue Battle Drill, Saiyan Interruption, Saiyan Recovery It is funny to me that Saiyan is both the primary Skip Style, and the style with the most anti-Skip. Besides that though, I straight up think Blue Tag Team Mastery is probably the most versatile anti-Oppressive option at the moment. With a Villain Personality for Paragus, or with Goku Ally to search out Battle Drill. Another option I've been thinking as a counter-pick would be an old-school Namekian "Wall" DB deck. These Oppressive decks somewhat rely on the opponent not being ready to handle their offensive, and on them not being punished for ducking and weaving through combat. So, how does a pure DBV deck go against them? Still probably not well, but 'ey, it's worth a shot xD
  5. I would argue that Kid Trunks is actually as good an MP as the others are, just that he sees a lot less play because he's kind of ham-strung to specific playstyles. His Quickness Drill won't get discarded, is considered styled, and gives you stages + an extra draw. This gives him some hand generation to keep pushing pressure. His Energy Burst forces a skip. With his Level 1, not to mention Oppressive, this is potentially a massive stage gain card for 5 life cards. The card may as well read "Gain 2-4 stages," raises your own anger, lowers anger, and lets you tech any styled energy combat. His Level 1 can force a skip, gain stages, lower anger, and raise its own anger. His Level 3 can gain up to 10 stages after a skip and draws an extra card. His Level 4 is the ultimate level for Energy Beats decks. I think he has access to Dr. Brief? But also, Goten as a combat ender. Deconstructing him like this, the only real downsides of Kid Trunks are his Level 2 and the fact that you're forced into a Skip-focused playstyle; but with Oppressive Mastery, that's kind of what you want. If we continue with the others as sports cars, I'd say he's formula 1. Incredibly powerful and efficient, but fairly frail and really needs a certain kind of road to perform. ftr, I've not seen the deck that's won, but looking him over, he's got some really solid options and he was built for Oppressive. Heck, Oppressive allows him to operate at above-average levels while camping at 1. Throw in things like Overpowering Aura Drill to recur Sword Skill, Suppression Drill to slow your opponent's deck and net some deck destruction (as Oppressive will make up the difference for you), Corruption Drill for some overkill and some weird cards like Saiyan Clash and you could even go for a deck destruction build instead of just Beats. Alternatively, do what I think would be the smart thing and go for life card beats with a drill focus. Turning Kick for unpreventable 7 life cards + drill recursion, Tandem, Aerial, Allied Blitz, Assisted Kamehameha. On your final point of, does the style require stage modifiers; Probably not, but it needs a strong enough MP to make-up the gap between styles, and you're pretty much locked to Oppressive if you want to do really well. Future Gohan is a really hard one for me to place because of that.
  6. tl;dr my thoughts: Saiyan Oppressive can easily function as a low-key replacement for Empowered. This enables a lot of the tempo-based cards in Saiyan. Skip-Beats and Clench-Beats are both very well fleshed out archtypes. Probably the most well-fleshed out in the game atm, but definitely in Saiyan. Few decks in this format are built to deal with Oppressive Beats. All of the MPs that are doing well with this Mastery are still strong MPs even when their Mastery gets shut down. Personally, I think what's helping Oppressive out a lot is that it can low-key act as a substitute for Empowered Mastery and, in much the same way, better enables the Tempo play-style that Saiyan generally goes for. Adding to that, Skip-Beats is one of the more fleshed-out Saiyan decks alongside Clench, and I think that consistency in theme and focus lets them perform at a much higher level than other Saiyan styles. Also, Clench has a LOT of pressure, and if even one hit gets through, your entire game plan can get fucked. Another thing worth mentioning is that pretty much all Oppressive Decks are heavy-beats decks with a passive control over a combat in the middle of a control-heavy format. I plainly don't think most decks at this time are built for these match-ups, and if even one combat goes poorly for these control decks, Oppressive decks can capitalize and really run away with themselves. And lastly, all the MPs that are getting through to the top with Oppressive are strong MPs even without Oppressive Mastery. I would say the MPs are high-performance sports cars, and that Oppressive Mastery is a nice, long stretch of road where they can really let loose on. Even Nappa. Nappa would be a muscle car. Something like a mustang, maybe. (Broly is then a more recent model of muscle car.)
  7. Yeah, I kind of agree after getting back into watching the tournament circuits. About the only thing I'd like to throw out there is that Swap!Hirudegarn most likely deserves a mention in the Tier 1/2 area, and the presence of the Blue Dende Leader likely forces Blue Gogeta/Kid Buu right up to the top of the charts. That said, I think just about any Swap/Disruption deck is probably tier 1. Well, Goku's Lineage Swap. Frieza Swap just doesn't have the cards to really place at all. I am also curious about Super Shenron as a leader, and if he'll start to see more play over time as it does deal with one of the biggest issues facing Shenron decks and hard-counters the Janemba match-up. And honestly, I think we're moving towards A Child's Wish getting restricted in some way, just because it makes too many otherwise "okay" engines completely unreasonable (Kid Buu, Super 17, Cell, etc.) and it's too universally good for Shenron decks. I wish I could say I see Swap getting hit, but tbh, I don't.
  8. I am incredibly interested in that Tao deck. Please keep me updated and post on that one xD In regards to your Black Mischevious Build, have you tried out Krillin? Just, spring-boarding off of what I think your Roshi build was, I feel like the newer Krillin MP might actually be able to do the same thing, but a touch better. Plus, access to 18 Ally and helpful techs in his named cards could really push things along. I also find it kind of interesting that we're both struggling with the exact same decks |: If you can come up with any techs to really help out, shoot them my way. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with where I've gotten Tien at for now. I think I'm going to change gears and try out a similar build with a different MP before coming back and giving him another go. Honestly, the next most obvious MP for the Charge engine is easily a Stage-Beats Gohan deck since I can take full advantage of Adept that way and I can just throw out Orange Luxury from the Sword Chop search to net an extra action, and I'll probably throw in . It's not quite as destructive as Tien, and honestly, I think it's a lazy af build, but it's a good way to get a feel for how the engine plays with other MPs. Besides Gohan (and Drawku), I'm thinking there could be something interesting with Bardock? It's honestly kind of hard to say since I want an MP with a good named event to play around with. Heck, maybe even Cooler or Frieza could rock it...? Hrm. Elsewhere, I'm kind of washing my hands of Boujack. |: Honestly, I find him to be one of the most boring MPs I've ever played. There's nothing really wrong with him per se, but I just can't find a build with him that I enjoy playing. He's just too... Blue? Which is weird, because I normally love Ally MPs (Babidi, Cell, Broku, etc.), but I'm just so done with Bojack from the get-go. Maybe it's because he doesn't really bring anything new to the table? Or maybe I've just played that deck type too much?
  9. Oh, they definitely can. Honestly, this deck is perhaps over-reliant on good timing with when you play what cards, but you also have access to things like Heroic Jab, Tri-Beam, and Heroic Dashing Punch to try and bait out your opponent's blocks before you start dropping the more important cards. I can't speak with specialized expertise on how well this set-up will work against more advanced players, but I did find that when one of my friends decided to try and change gears and exclusively save blocks for the Charge/Chop play, he was taking so much damage and losing so much ground to my other freestyle attacks that I didn't NEED Charge/Chop (especially after you set-up Aggressive Sword Drill, and Pesky Blast becomes an unpreventable -10 life cards). That said, your opponent's hand is always something you need to be aware of, and that's honestly why I've ended up with so many filter cards in the deck. Gathering checking top 5 and giving you a draw, as well as Luxury and Preparation if you're running it (I took it out for space) really helps with searching out your Confrontations, and if they use a Sphere on your confrontation, then you can feel a bit safer in that you'll probably get away with Targeting, and if they don't, then you can scan their hand and figure out how likely you are to pull off your move. You can also pull a similar thing in principle by running Spying Drill, though I don't really like Spying Drill personally and have found that Freezing Drill almost removes the need for that extra scanning. Supreme Kai is one of the more coin-flipp-ey match-ups in my experience, in no small part thanks to Halt! and his sheer ability to control the pace of combat. One thing I found that helped against my friend was just playing around my bigger comboes and running him out of actions early in the match so that he couldn't fully build the board necessary to hold me off; eventually, he'd need to relent and let me pop off, and you honestly only need to pop off the once to really control the game. And unless you're rather unfortunate in luck, you honestly only need the one card + Tien's power TO pop-off. Ultimately, this is a match-up where you want to enter combat as much as possible early on, and really play out all your filter cards and freestyle attacks. This is also the main match-up where I'd say Preparation is incredibly helpful, as the extra draws are so valuable and you can use Orange Memory as essentially an extra 3 copies of Orange Luxury. Even with all this though, Supreme Kai CAN play around you if they get the right draws, and the matches I had were honestly so back and forth that I don't know if this deck CAN outmaneuver Supreme Kai. On the note of defensive decks in general though, I actually think this deck has an easier time with them then they do all-out aggro decks. With defensive decks, you can play around them, and you can play out all your draw cards knowing that they'll need time to take advantage of how quickly you're burning through your own deck; Things like Broly, or full-agro Majin Vegeta, are a different story. Even if you get the blocks out there to stop the bigger swings, they can chip you into submission by just not relenting and I can't figure out how to make the deck win that survival race. Which is frustrating me, because I can't figure out why it can take on Dabura, but can't take on Broly |: What about your deck adventures btw? How has the testing been lately?
  10. @Amanax UPDATE: The deck works. Really, really well. I played for a decent while yesterday, against a variety of decks, and while there were some painfully brutal match-ups (Pikkon literally makes it impossible to win and M. Vegeta really hurt the Adaptive build), against aggro-tempo decks like Dabura, the deck starts to really hammer home hard with only a little bit of set-up and can actually go beat-for-beat against Dabura. I would actually say that Red Sword Dabura is the most similar deck in terms of it's ability to tutor cards and keep a combat going for awhile, and plays a similar match-up against Supreme Kai/Babidi decks; All you need is one strong combat, and you can almost seal the game just from that. I mentioned before how the deck comboes, and what cards are played to bring it together, but I don't think it really hits home until you actually get a Charge -> Charge -> Sword Chop where the latter two are hitting for 11 stages/13 life cards respectively, and that just OPENS you up to Targeting/Draining Blast/Tri-Beam. And that's one card in your hand that can lead into 7 high impact attacks, without factoring in anything you search with Aggressive, Tien's power, or any other drills in play. And heck, once you're nearing the end of your loops, you can rejuv Preparations to grab an extra action. That all said, I don't think I've really found the true value of the Orange/Freestyle Tenshinhan yet. What yesterday did was really help put the deck into perspectives, and show me it's strengths and its weaknesses.The strengths being: - That the deck is unrelenting. - Does not rely on its drills at all. - It has an insane amount of tutoring/stack/draw power, making it incredibly easy to set up (especially with Orange Gathering combo'ing into Orange Luxury). - On from the above, with Confrontation and Spheres, you can force a bad combat on the opponent. People do NOT expect this of an Orange deck, and when your drills only serve to restrict their plays, they'll often opt for board control instead of trying to nerf your hand. There is almost a freedom in this compared to other Orange builds I've played, where I'm legit only running Drills that mess with my opponent. Examination Drill is there to keep both players down in anger, Driving Drill hurts Babidi badly, Shopping Drill makes the entire fight an uphill climb for M. Vegeta, and Aggressive Sword Drill hurts high endurance builds. My drills are a constant priority for my opponent, but they mean nothing to my game plan. The weaknesses of the deck? - It's much more reliant on luck than most other decks in the competitive scene. This is just owing to the named cards self-destruction your deck, and the need for Charge to pass 10 cards before you hit another Orange. If the Orange attacks are stacked by some impossibly bad stroke of luck, you're going to be hitting like a wet noodle. - The suicide-rampage build is incredibly easy to play around once you figure out what it's doing. Just start going for pure damage, and Tenshinhan starts to fall behind the curve. - A couple of bad damages from the opponent before you've started stacking your deck can decimate your game plan. - Pikkon. - Broly. These lessons in mind, I actually think the best possible deck for Tenshinhan is a hybrid somewhere between these two builds. An Adept build with all the filtering cards, the necessary blocks to hold off some of the nastier match-ups, Checkup Drill to grab said block, and a mix of good life card damage and good utility cards. I have one very important question following this though: How does Awakening Gohan interact with Orange Charge? |:
  11. Hrm. After playing around some more, I've come up with two versions of the deck, that are both using the Orange Charge -> Sword Chop setup to help things along. One of them is a bit more traditional of a deck for PanZ, with around 12 effective blocks for Physical and 9 for Energy, Time, and a heavy focus on life card damage. This is using things like Playful Punch, Pesky Barrage, etc. to only ever swing for life card damage, with Reality Check to help with board control. This deck also runs Adaptive Mastery so that my leveling doesn't hurt me as much, as well as letting me hit the numbers necessary to consistently grab crits. Ultimately, I'd say this deck is the "safe" build and it runs pretty well actually. Adaptive also lets me grab back some of my more helpful Drills from drop when dealing with a lot of board control, and thanks to your suggestion of Examination Drill, I am actually able to keep both players anger relatively in control. The other is one that I built more from your advice, and is also a lot, lot riskier. It runs a heavier drill package, this time including Freezing Drill, Shopping Drill, and Possession Drill and has a lot more hand/deck filtering in cards like Orange Luxury. I've also maxed out it's copies of Orange Memory and it has 2 Orange Fixation to grab out Aggressive Sword Drill (with the other being either Endurance, or discard fodder with all your hand filtering). This one is a lot less focused on Life Card Damage than the other, which can slow it down considerably as you get further into a match, but has a lot more in the way of combo-ability with Dashing Sword Attack and Devilish Sword Attack to help build pace. I've also thrown Android Arm Breaker in this build to stop my opponent from forcefully leveling me as well as for Endurance, and it has Heroic Jab/Reality Check to help control the board. Now, with only 6 Styled Attack cards total in the deck, this deck can run into issues with actually using the Adept Mastery to full efficiency, but weirdly, thanks to all the hand filtering and tutoring Events, this is largely a non-issue. That said, what makes this deck so much riskier is that the two engines didn't leave enough space for very many blocks.... And I fully swung into that and dropped Blocks from the deck entirely. So this is a suicide-rampage Tenshinhan deck, but thanks to Confrontation, Hand Filtering, the ability to tutor cards back from drop, Tien's power, and Freezing Drill, when it pops off, it doesn't stop for awhile... Like, play-testing it with a friend, I had one turn where Sword Drill'd a Sword Chop to hand, I Confrontation'd away their only block, had Charge AND an extra Sword Chop already in hand, used Tien to grab Targeting, and then just... Kept going. For awhile. And with all the hand filtering and drawing, this kind of setup isn't super hard to get live. But yeah, honestly, after experimenting between a more "standard" Orange deck and the Charge/Sword Chop Freestlye engine, I've found the latter is shockingly more consistent and just gives more advantages. Like, there's an unspoken advantage it gives you in a Tien deck in that you can stack all of your most important cards at the bottom of your deck so they're still available (I'd recommend doing this between Preparations and Draining Blast, as every time you tutor, you lose your stack), not to mention that if you go Charge -> Charge -> Charge, the latter two are most likely going to have a +10 stage modifiers bonus on them, and will hit for 11 stages each. I'm going to have a few friends over to play-test more tomorrow though. Sadly, my locals out here doesn't really do anything with the game, so that's the limit of how much I can test this.
  12. Hrm... I tried it out with Red Announcement, and it does offer you some extra access to a few of his named cards. But that's actually kind of started me down yet another route with Tien... (Alright, so I'm 100% sure that someone has already tackled this, and has probably done it with a lot of success, but tbh, I've not really gone looking for other people's takes on the deck just because I like to keep it fresh when I'm first building it.) Anyway, the idea of using Red Announcement to filter through Tien's named energy blasts reminded me of Orange Sword Chop. And like that, you can see where I've taken this deck. I've gone Adept again, just because Tien is 100% a camper, but with his natural anger gain, I'll likely swap over to Combative just because I can't find a way to consistently get my anger down in Orange outside of using Orange Meditation on myself (which can go real badly). What's really frustrating is that, if his Level 2 was better, I actually think he'd make a potent and powerful stack, but instead I'm trying to work around him levelling Anyway, I'm basically rocking 3 Pulverize to search for Orange Sword Chop at the end of a turn, 3 Orange Sword Chop to search for Tenshinhan's Targeting, Targeting searches out Tenshinhan's Draining Blast, Draining Blast then rejuvenates Targeting (which gives +5 stages), and then I can use Tien's power to grab Targeting back and go for another Draining Blast and you can kind of see the pattern of the deck. The big issue facing the deck is; I have almost no way to get anything else besides Targeting back from my banished turn-on-turn unless I include something like Defiant Challenge to grab back my banished Draining Blasts, which I can then use to get back my... Defiant Challenge? I will admit that it's a really fun deck that burns both players to a crisp very quickly if your opponent doesn't play the right cards at the right time. That said, I'm yet to actually pull off a win with the deck because I can't find a consistent way to stop my leveling and I run out of steam IMMEDIATELY after I hit Level 2. You guys got any thoughts? EDIT: Also just adding, a fun idea I've been playing around with but have yet to try is going for Orange Charge to help me stack my deck and search out Orange Sword Chop. So running a deck that's just Freestyle combat cards, Orange Charge and Orange Sword Chop, and getting really weird with things. Not sure what Mastery I'd go for if I did this though...
  13. Honestly, I fall into the same boat with the level-hopping blocks. They're not as much of a universal staple as a lot of Red players insist precisely because they can really mess about some decks. But tbh, I'm still a bit iffy on Level-Hopping Tien. I recognize it's strength, and I have played against the kind of deck you're describing, but I can't help but feel it still has the same weakness that Tien does in general; That his level 2 is pretty mediocre, his 3 is just there to buff you to his 4, and his 4 is arguably not as versatile as his 1 (though, it can still be incredibly useful). It's just really weird that when they gave his stack some revival support, they replaced the only universally "good" level he has instead of fixing his stack. Like, level hopping Tien that can go from banishing to search for a named card, to rejuv'ing a named card from Banished (changing his new Level 1 to a Level 2) is overwhelmingly better than what we have right now, and then his 4 is something you can easily push up to for a winning turn. That said, atm, I'm trying to work with a Level 1 Camp Red Tien, and I'm not having the most luck, so I'm maybe not the ideal person to give my thoughts on tien |:
  14. Honestly, Tien is a giant pain in the ass to try and build for pretty much that reason. What makes it more frustrating is that his new Level 1 would actually function just fine as a level 2 to support his original stack. Honestly, I do kind of hope we get a "revival" set ala. Vanguard (G-Era) and Yu-Gi-Oh. Just a set dedicated to patching the holes of the older stacks and making them a bit more consistent (like how Raditz focuses on Setups/Drills on his even Levels, but hand advantage on his odds). The odd levels here and there are nice, don't get me wrong, but they're never quite enough to revive a deck or fix the problems with any given stack.
  15. To be honest, I have tried it out in Combative, and it's kind of a coin flip on if it's better or not. The extra focus on Drill Tutoring in my energy fills my deck with a few more dead cards once I get the more important drills out, and it honestly doesn't swing quite as much; On the flip side, it loses the "Suicide" element of the deck, so strictly speaking, it's probably the better build, but I'm not here to play well. I'm here to have crazy fun |: Speaking of, level hopping Future Gohan is honestly hilarious to play, but it's kind of led me on this weird journey to find the best personality to take advantage of Red Focus (so the one with the best Named Cards). So far, besides the obvious ones of Vegeta and Frieza, I'm actually vibing with Trunks, Krillin and Tien. All 3 of them have a pretty decent range of named cards that offer decent variety. Krillin especially has a lot to gain from rocking out RF, with extra access to Solar Flare to end bad combats, Kamehameha for board control, and Destructo Disc for that guaranteed damage when you need it. Right now, I'm trying him out in Ascension so that I can passively get some anger (and maybe some levels) by opening combats, using my Mastery, and then throwing out a Blinding Energy Move/Solar Flare to immediately end the combat, doing some small damage and gaining 2 anger (and stockpile setups/drills one I hit level 2), but I'm wondering if there's a more effective, less slow-burn Krillin deck in Amplified. Eh, I'll tool around with it some more.
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