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Official Set 7 Awakening Discussion - Preview/Information Thread (Update 10/10/16)

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Underestimated it, but it still didn't do d*ick to him. If Vegeta's new stack didn't have his hella modifiers, this would've easily been a 6 card attack like Supernova, or more.

Only because he leaned out of the way after realizing how strong it was. Had he not, no cell games. Needs to be stronger.

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Yeah, on level 3, you're right it's a 7 life card attack that's near unblockable that if it's blocked you can throw again... for another 3 stages. there aren't many scenarios that I can think of where you would pay 6 stages to deal 7 life cards that can still be prevented.

 

The ONLY reason this card will even see play is because of the hand manipulation and the Red Restriction-esque effect and even then it comes at a price. Hand manipulation is a hit Effect that also drops a level making the all mighty energy beat vegeta drop to 5 stages and the restriction effect really forces this card to be a lead, and it's still BAU.

 

I honestly don't know how I feel about it. Looking at the other named cards that have come out lately, this one feels pretty lack luster. It is a jack of all trades card, trying to be good at a lot of things and doesn't really do anything great. Damage is lacking, even after the modifiers (Comparing to his other named attacks, and all of the other non-styled attack options he has, including the new Assisted Kamehameha) and everything else comes with draw backs. 

 

I will admit, as has already been pointed out, there are some cool combo potentials here, and it will come down to how consistent those combos are to pull off. But is it the totally awesome Vegeta named card we were promised? I certainly don't think so. It's slightly better than destruction blast, and that card is considered pretty terrible. In some ways, destruction blast is even better (Isn't BAU, on hit recovers some of the 3 stages it cost to cast it if hero and banishes 5 cards if villain, is also only stoppable by energy combats and does 5 life cards of damage)

 

Well let's be honest If Final Flash didn't have BAU it probably would've been even more busted than Tri-Beam in Red Ruthless, that being said I think Orange Retribution Vegeta has the makings of a great Energy Beats deck that could potentially outclass Yamcha due to all the Energy Combat support he has at his disposal with Aura Drill for a +2 life card mod, Energy Dan Drill for getting rid of threats while being able to banish from the discard with his Level 1, while Captivity Drill nets you an anger and 3 stages to keep the onslaught going.

 

Overpowering Attack comes to mind for getting Dr. Brief to net extra card advantage when entering while Bulma helps get rid of even more threats that could pose hazardous toward your game plan If your opponent has already managed to get rid of Energy Dan Drill. Orange Energy Absorption helps keep your stages to a good level while I also like the idea of grabbing Vegeta's Anger with Orange Sword Chop If it hits though I don't see why you would want to use it anyhow unless you're going up against Saiyan where they won't be able to use Grab and Domination against you.

 

Here's an Orange Retribution Vegeta list that I've been brewing:

 

Title: Orange Retribution Vegeta

Deck List:

Main Personality:
Mastery:
Setups:
Drills:
Allies:
Events:

Physical Combats:

3 x Playful Punch

Energy Combats:

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Vegeta is going to be interesting to see how people build him, balancing his non-styled attack focus with any styled benefits from the new masteries.

 

If you go to Level 2 in your deck, you can offset the lack of using the 0-stage energy attack aspect of Retribution by using his +3 stage gain power when you need to keep the attacks going.

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Vegeta is going to be interesting to see how people build him, balancing his non-styled attack focus with any styled benefits from the new masteries.

 

If you go to Level 2 in your deck, you can offset the lack of using the 0-stage energy attack aspect of Retribution by using his +3 stage gain power when you need to keep the attacks going.

 

I was going to include two more play sets of Physical and Energy Stops in here, mainly Orange Duck for getting a Drill back when jumping a level with Devouring Drill to trigger Vegeta's parenthetical text including Orange Energy Evasion for more stage gain. Sinister Choke could probably be replaced with Dashing Punch or Dig depending on how much the player wants to spend on the deck while the focus on Non-Styled attacks makes it rather difficult to include most of the basic Drill tutors that Orange normally runs.

 

Red Ruthless and Saiyan Rampaging might play more into Vegeta's favor than Orange Retribution though it's hard to say without further seeing what the other Mastery's do this early during spoiler season, of course it doesn't hurt to see what kind of lists I can come up with for both Styles to help prepare for the upcoming Set 7 meta. Vegeta does have some synergy with Blue Tag Team but it's not much while I'd rather run Blue Resolute with Krillin.

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@Card Slinger J - Except tri-beam is better geared towards the strategy by 1) Having no stage cost making it impossible to stage lock the combo and 2) forcing your opponent to skip his next action to ensure the combo goes through.

 

Vegeta's new parenthetical text is what helps him in this regard. Like you, I have mostly been looking at Orange for him right now, because I already run a pretty angry Yamcha deck that can hop levels fairly quick for fairly cheap energy cost. Between the cheap cost and the allies abilities to cast your attacks, it seems like the right way to go. That or blue for reasons people have already been talking about (Hellloooo free ally damage boosts. Stand aside Gohan!)

 

Maybe it's just the meta I play in, but there is still a lot of stage hate that I see being thrown around, and it makes throwing these large cost energy attacks pretty difficult. His level 2 right now seems the sweet spot for throwing around energy due to it's own ability to replenish stages, and as you said, when combined with the orange mastery can get you going even after being locked down. But the reason Yamcha works as an energy beat deck isn't because of his damage boosting, it's because of his ability to maintain pressure even when locked. This is something Vegeta does not have.

 

Obviously, we'll see what happens and more stuff may come out to help keep him up in stages, but until I get a chance to play test the card, I just can't see any reason why this card is being praised as so amazing which is the main reason I'm posting (I'm more of a lurker normally, just look at the post count). 3 stages is a lot for an attack. Look at some of the other 3 stage cost attacks, see what they offer. Cooler's super nova gives 2 immediate anger, is unpreventable, deals 7 life cards, and can be recurred to blow things up on the board. Crushing beam is 6 damage that is straight banished and reshuffles into the deck after use to either be used again or to prevent damage with the nice endurance on it. What other three cost energy attacks do you see actually getting play? off the top of my head, I can't think of any. The cost is usually considered too high.

 

So either there is something I'm not seeing here or we are just so hungry for more vegeta that something that looks almost awesome comes across as absolutely amazing. If it really is that amazing, I'd love to be proven wrong.

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Maybe it's just the meta I play in, but there is still a lot of stage hate that I see being thrown around, and it makes throwing these large cost energy attacks pretty difficult. His level 2 right now seems the sweet spot for throwing around energy due to it's own ability to replenish stages, and as you said, when combined with the orange mastery can get you going even after being locked down. But the reason Yamcha works as an energy beat deck isn't because of his damage boosting, it's because of his ability to maintain pressure even when locked. This is something Vegeta does not have.

 

Not to mention Surprise Attack and Android Defensive Blast are just a few Achilles heels that hurts Vegeta more than helps, Orange Energy Dan Drill helps in this regard especially If you manage to banish them with his Level 1 which is one of the reasons why I've opted for Devastating Blow over Sinister Choke/I'll Dig Your Grave! in the Orange Retribution Vegeta build I posted earlier. From my understanding Yamcha mainly applies pressure through Rescue and Expert Assistance where as Vegeta's Anger can be utilized as a tool to counter Saiyan Grab against Broly not to mention that it also combos nicely with Overwhelming Power to blow up Setups and/or Drills.

 

Obviously, we'll see what happens and more stuff may come out to help keep him up in stages, but until I get a chance to play test the card, I just can't see any reason why this card is being praised as so amazing which is the main reason I'm posting (I'm more of a lurker normally, just look at the post count). 3 stages is a lot for an attack. Look at some of the other 3 stage cost attacks, see what they offer. Cooler's super nova gives 2 immediate anger, is unpreventable, deals 7 life cards, and can be recurred to blow things up on the board. Crushing beam is 6 damage that is straight banished and reshuffles into the deck after use to either be used again or to prevent damage with the nice endurance on it. What other three cost energy attacks do you see actually getting play? off the top of my head, I can't think of any. The cost is usually considered too high.
 
Well there's Point-Blank Volley which is mostly an extra attack when banished for endurance and Enraged Blast which nets you 2 anger. Focused Assault can also come in handy for getting rid of Unleashed targets such as Tree of Might and Saiyan Rescue while Energized Strike can shuffle itself back into the Life Deck for free without having to pay stages. Heroic Dashing Punch and Aggressive Sword Drill I feel could be really good auto includes for an Orange Retribution Vegeta build since you ensure that your Named attacks can't be endured but are also banished as well.

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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Vegeta's Anger doesn't do anything for Grab, etc. It's only higher power level for YOUR card effects.

 

That may be true however it still helps you get off Overwhelming Power's board wipe ability If you're not at a higher power level than your opponent from using up all your stages on Energy Attacks.

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14291696_10102008119299874_3111216432327

 

 

Good, anti nonstyled hate.

 

 

14362707_10102008141844694_6044222907896

 

 

The utility on this parenthetical text is weird, stops when entering events, and makes sure you both have 3 cards if you choose to enter.

 

 

14322384_10102008155232864_6550336173648

 

 

Some okay energy beats for red.

 

 

14355791_10102008187423354_5408247648578

 

 

Takes a little work to get full value, unless the mastery gives you stages.

 

 

14358678_10102008243535904_2928546773812

 

 

What old Herogeta should have had as a power if they didn't lie to us in his teaser.

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14291696_10102008119299874_3111216432327

 

 

Good, anti nonstyled hate.

 

 

14362707_10102008141844694_6044222907896

 

 

The utility on this parenthetical text is weird, stops when entering events, and makes sure you both have 3 cards if you choose to enter.

 

 

14322384_10102008155232864_6550336173648

 

 

Some okay energy beats for red.

 

 

14355791_10102008187423354_5408247648578

 

 

Takes a little work to get full value, unless the mastery gives you stages.

 

 

14358678_10102008243535904_2928546773812

 

 

What old Herogeta should have had as a power if they didn't lie to us in his teaser.

 

 

Really like Orange Aggression. Looks like Orange might become the new MPPV threat. Also really like Orange Restructuring Drill since it doesn't say to a minimum of 0. A good card that could support Adept Mastery, with the stage boosts, if Orange gets some better physicals this set. Keep the stage pressure on with Restructuring, or just mill for 3 cards if you've hit them to 0.

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Not to mention Surprise Attack and Android Defensive Blast are just a few Achilles heels that hurts Vegeta more than helps, Orange Energy Dan Drill helps in this regard especially If you manage to banish it with his Level 1 which is one of the reasons why I've opted for Devastating Blow over Sinister Choke/I'll Dig Your Grave! in the Orange Retribution Vegeta build I posted earlier. From my understanding Yamcha mainly applies pressure through Rescue and Expert Assistance where as Vegeta's Anger can be utilized as a tool to counter Saiyan Grab against Broly not to mention that it also combos nicely with Overwhelming Power to blow up Setups and/or Drills.

 

 
Well there's Point-Blank Volley which is mostly an extra attack when banished for endurance and Enraged Blast which nets you 2 anger. Focused Assault can also come in handy for getting rid of Unleashed targets such as Tree of Might and Saiyan Rescue while Energized Strike can shuffle itself back into the Life Deck for free without having to pay stages. Heroic Dashing Punch and Aggressive Sword Drill I feel could be really good auto includes for an Orange Retribution Vegeta build since you ensure that your Named attacks can't be endured but are also banished as well.

 

 

Point-blank volley is a great example of what I mean. It's a card that on paper has a great effect, but how many of the top end decks have you seen actually use it? How many decks do you run it in?  Enraged blast was great... for it's time. Again, not really a card you see anymore. If you want 2 anger, there are usually better options except in vary specific scenarios. Focused assault is one I forgot. Doesn't see a lot of play, but not because of it's cost, only due to the hero restriction in a villain strong meta. Saiyan tracking blast was another I forgot that costs 3, but most of the time it's cost is bypassed anyways. 

 

As for needing heroic dashing punch and aggressive sword drill to get the same value those other cards bring to the table... While a great band-aid, it only shows the value of those cards, not final flash.

 

i will say though, one thing that I'm looking forward to testing, is the new Vegeta w/ Rampaging and Denial attached so the mastery does straight lifecard damage. Should add some pretty decent mid range attacks to your arsenal and make it harder to trap you into a bad combat. With unleashed, you may even get away without being punished for the lower Saiyan styled card count.

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