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Artificial Human

Pan/Fan Z and not fleshing out archetypes

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I have been going on a deck building blitz recently. While doing this I've noticed that the developers seemingly start ideas, but don't support them adequately or make complete garbage cards that don't function correctly. Saiyan Rampaging eventually got what it needed, after the community chastised the developers for the Evolution Vegeta debacle, and Copy is seemingly getting there, eventually, circa 2025, maybe.

The whole game frankly falls under this because they put themes in and don't adequately support them or make garbage, unfunctioning cards. Black doesn't even have a real theme, but Red caught my eye.

* Red Enraged wasn't the best during Premier, that's granted. It barely functioned. But never got what I would describe as organic support, they just gave it a shotgun and was told 'Go at it'. Look at Red Enraged Mastery. It gets Anger off Criticals. Ok, it's too open and easy to break due to general incompetence in card design, but if you saw something that got Anger off Criticals, how would you support it? It already has two ways to shut off Endurance, both an Energy and a Setup, so maybe a Drill, Physical or Event to give some fall back? Make it more reliable? Ok. That's part of it. But what about dealing Critical Damage? Higher damaging attacks? Well, it got a couple of +4 Stages Physicals, but cards like Red Slide are poorly worded and jank. For the life of me I don't get why it wasn't around the other way or didn't raise your Anger period. But what about Energy Attacks? They do Life Card Damage, have a great setup in Red Static Shot. Should Crit. But Nope. So many 4 or Less that can't Crit, no real easy way to empower them up and the deck that seems the easiest way to support Red Enraged didn't exist. Lastly, what about card effects that work when they Crit. It's in Red's theme. Nope. Instead, we get forced Criticals. Critical Effects chucked on everything and Red Enraged became a problem.

* Red Ruthless is not a bad Mastery, but Red Interference was the only useful support it ever got. Red Interference's Physical version, Red Cross Block, doesn't work because it's not Banish After Use. As far as I remember, Red Interference is the only card Red has to set up Red Ruthless, otherwise you have to wait till your opponent cannot attack anymore or luck out on Damage. It's bothersome too, because just a card that says 'When it's revealed, rearrange discard' would have been simple enough to work. Red Ruthless benefits off being a largely generic Mastery, but frankly, with the lack of quality support, it should have just been the Cell Saga Red Style Mastery and kept simple.

* Red Ascension has a neat theme in Awakening that isn't fully fleshed out and could be a good deck. Red Stage Lock. There are a few good cards there that if you've gained Stages that combat, your opponent loses Stages. Not even to a minimum. I would really like to see this one fleshed out, it looks fun. You can kinda make it with No13 due to redundancy of his effects, but the deck as a whole has no cohesion due to not having enough support. Maybe 2 cards worth running. The real shame is, anything they could have given to Enraged could have worked for Red Ascension, due to their activation triggers.

 

This is all while the game was going on. It basically goes for all Styles too. The only one Fan Z finished, and subsequently made a problem, was Orange Drill Mill. They tried supporting Black's Masteries, and I applaud them, but I don't feel it was enough. This is partially why all Decks have a core they are built around, because most of the cards don't have what they need. I am concerned now that 10 will have the same problem, especially with the small size.

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I don't think Red Enraged original theme was crits for anger. I always thought it qas anger as a resource. It has all the cards that say "lower anger to do thing" and the mastery was intended to help provide that anger. I think a red ginyu during set 1 would hev been good because it had all the removal and the anger for effects.

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The archetype I have tried to mess with several times with no success is the red drill deck.  It seems fun but I always revert back to only including the really good ones (Forward Stance, Embarrassing if you use anger as a resource, etc.). Some of the new Fan Z red drills are pretty good, though. 

I feel like they are trying to make it work but it is still not quite there yet, unless I just suck as making this type of deck.

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2 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

Red Ascension Trunks is a deck that works quite well. Stupid uninteractive, with the Evolution Trunks Level 3 and the Blinding Loop. It is actually my favorite deck to play. I love making my opponent not play. (must be the Mahvel player in me :V)

You mean what's been dubbed Ferrari Trunks? I rock it in Rampaging. It's like barely playing the game.

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On 10/27/2017 at 1:14 PM, Artificial Human said:

You mean what's been dubbed Ferrari Trunks? I rock it in Rampaging. It's like barely playing the game.

It's just too bad Roshi and Goku did it better.  Mine got stomped at worlds T.T

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So Set 9 wants to make a Saiyan Skip Deck. Everything in Set 9 wants this deck that makes the opponent skip their action repeatedly, using Saiyan Suppression Drill to make them mill. But Saiyan Suppression Drill makes both players only gain 1 from your PUR too, so you probably want a Physical Deck for that, or Stage Gain. Saiyan Crouch won't help. Hmm. Let's look at what it has to work with.

Saiyan Energy Volley from today works with it, except that your PUR is 1. :/ Doesn't seem like a good choice.

Saiyan Sword Skill works, provided you make all your attacks not deal Critical Damage to keep it in play. :/ Seems like a lot of work.

Saiyan Interruption kinda works, but relies on your opponent doing shit. No thanks.

Saiyan Gut Kick is the perfect card for this deck.

 

I am going to be more lenient with this one, as it's a theme started in small space and it may be fully supported in Set 10, but, it's the same problem again. Nice start of a deck there, you gonna finish it?

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1 hour ago, Artificial Human said:

 

X4BAkdZ.jpg

Negatory, good buddy.

Shame too, looks like an amazing deck. Broly would have been hilarious in it.

I had nappa build that looked shit on paper but actually had a good winning record, and even beat some red coolers in thier prime.  It did better than it had any right to.

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12 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

So Set 9 wants to make a Saiyan Skip Deck. Everything in Set 9 wants this deck that makes the opponent skip their action repeatedly, using Saiyan Suppression Drill to make them mill. But Saiyan Suppression Drill makes both players only gain 1 from your PUR too, so you probably want a Physical Deck for that, or Stage Gain. Saiyan Crouch won't help. Hmm. Let's look at what it has to work with.

tbh, I think a big one with this is going to be mastery dependent. So if you go with Empowered, for example, you get around the PUR by gaining stages for each hit. This kind of ducks around the inherit issue with Suppression Drill.
Now you just need to find a viable way to camp to stop yourself from discarding your drill. That, or find ways to burn your own anger into the ground.

Honestly, a really good combo you could work on with this is Sword Drill Trunks. His level 1 sets up Aggressive Sword Drill immediately, and you can use searchers to drop Suppression to the field. Saiyan Sword Skill is straight up netted from the deck on the following turn if you want it, which presents a consistent searcher for solid attacks in your Sword cards, and also gives you the ability to freely level up without dropping your drills. This presents extra set-up time to get Extreme Training to the board, and at his level 2, you have a physical block + rejuv.
It's not perfect, but in effect, you'd be mixing three themes to powerful effect. Force the opponent's skip + low PUR, swords searching and all-around punishing nature (Dashing Sword Attack, I bloody love you), and Trunks defensive effects and ability to force disruption.

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16 hours ago, Artificial Human said:

 

X4BAkdZ.jpg

Negatory, good buddy.

Shame too, looks like an amazing deck. Broly would have been hilarious in it.

Have you played against raditz lately? He's the real deal now that it's easy to get menace back from banish, and leveling to 4 is super fast with unleashed and more anger in empowered. 

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15 hours ago, Edison Carasio said:

I had nappa build that looked shit on paper but actually had a good winning record, and even beat some red coolers in thier prime.  It did better than it had any right to.

     I have a Nappa rampaging deck.  It freakin' RULES.  There are some archetypes I am pretty sure it would struggle with, but rampaging Nappa is legit.  I would post a list but I want to use it in an event first. :D  Sadly, it is not first in queue.  Next event I am using **************.

     There's something satisfying about them having half their life deck left and you ask, "Can I get a life deck count?" Saiyan Dive, baby!

     I love using lesser-played masteries.  Adept, Tag Team, Perceptive, Rampaging...I'LL FIND A WAY TO MAKE THEM WORK.

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3 hours ago, v3rse said:

Have you played against raditz lately? He's the real deal now that it's easy to get menace back from banish, and leveling to 4 is super fast with unleashed and more anger in empowered. 

I haven't played against Menance Raditz.

 

But I can play with it if I should see it first hand :)

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1 minute ago, Artificial Human said:

Would you happen to have a list I can nick? I really wouldn't know where to go beyond Raditz, Menace and anything else that stage locks them or gets Menace rotating.

I'll find my old list tomorrow for you. I never finished it because I was focused on other decks and someone at locals started showing up with their own raditz deck, but it should at least be a decent shell to start from. Could get nixed real quick though if they freeze empowered though. Just as a word of caution. 

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