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Card Slinger J

Are Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games Dying?

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I'm with Shoryu here, but also, just throwing it out there, the last few metas in Pokemon have been pretty interesting @Card Slinger J. EXs kind of became a pretty big weakness, with certain tech cards that did well countering them making them a high-risk, high-reward mechanic. We also saw a lot of budget decks like Night March.dek take top positions despite being made out of almost entirely stage 1s and non-EX basics. Right now, we've moved onto Pokemon GX, an evolution of the old EX mechanic, but who are normally stage 1s/2s (you do get Basic GXs, but they tend to be a lot weaker than the Stage 1/2s). And almost as soon as we got GXs, we got anti-GX mechanics. Mega-Pokemon also came into the game, and made a pretty drastic shift in how the game played since putting one on the board auto-ended your turn. And we've also had the Pokemon BREAK meta, where you evolve an already fully-evolved Pokemon into a "super form" that is mechanically identical to the LV. X mechanic of old but without the extra deck requirements (for those who don't know, LV. X were treated as having the same name as the Pokemon they were upgrading. So if you had 2 Darkrai LV. X, you could only have 2 non-LV. X Darkrai, which actually made the LV. Xs non-viable).

This said, there is definitely still going to be issues with the game, and I'm sure if you dig hard enough, you can find enough to bitch about them to the point where you won't want to engage. This is more from a game state viewpoint, and to be honest, the company seems to have learned from their mistakes and are making moves. Which is more than Wizards and Konami.

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"MTG would have to discontinue due to a class action lawsuit"?  Seriously?  What even is this thread?

The reason the judge lawsuit failed is because it was frivolous at the time.  Judges sign on to their position knowing they aren't going to be paid, but instead compensated in other ways, such as exclusive product and travel stipends.  When large scale events started skirting employment laws, because they ran longer than 8 hours and some judges were working a lot of hours, a couple guys realized they could try and make a quick buck by claiming they were "employees" with all the hours they volunteered.  However since Judges sign on as "volunteers" not employees, the case was thrown out, they couldn't make a fair judgement.  However, that doesn't mean there were no consequences.  In the past year or two, game companies are now being more diligent with their volunteers.  Most companies now DO pay their volunteers for working large events or shows.  I did 2 paid gigs demoing for Asmodee this year, my handlers with japanime games announced a pay program this past summer, now the ARG DBS regionals are ALSO paying their judges.  And we're not talking a couple bucks, each of these assignments pays $10/hour, well above fed min wage.


This isn't about the industry dying.  as has been said, there are so many options out there, one game going under won't kill the industry, even if it is MTG.  and the "saturation" you have talked about, regarding MTG and Pokémon, doesn't really contribute to your claims.  pokemon has offered tins and special boxes for years now.  Same with MTG, they have been releasing new product monthly for quite a while, this isn't a "new" thing.  This thread is nothing but a gripe about some recent MTG events that, in the long run, will likely have a minimal effect on MTG and the industry in general.  Just unfounded apocalypticism.

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On 12/11/2017 at 5:17 AM, Mysterious Youth said:

Is the issue really too many reprints or them not making the card accessible in the first place therefore facilitating a need for reprints? You have to understand that what they want to do is milk people on multiple levels. They don't care if your cards are worth anything because they can make an extra buck. It's the Yu-Gi-Oh! plan except I've heard it's worse.

Make X needed card hard to get so people buy sealed product for it = profit
Reprint card X in a new product so those without it need to/can buy that = profit

Even if you remove the reprint aspect and leave hard to get cards hard to get, it's still an antiquated and bad business model/process for the players. That's what's hurting TCG/CCGs in general, at least for me.

Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro doesn't understand that their current design philosophy for Standard is only catering to casuals who play EDH/Commander. MTG is suffering because of it since they can't turn a profit off of tournament legal sets unless they make money off of the Reserved List. Yu-Gi-Oh! doesn't have a list of cards to hold and preserve their value like MTG does because they aren't exempt from being reprinted in a functionally identical form.

Pokémon TCG sort of had it's own Reprint Policy for awhile dating back to when Wizards of the Coast was in charge before Pokémon Company International took over in 2003 with Base Set 1st Edition Charizard being akin to a ABU Black Lotus in MTG. Most other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games don't have an actual Reprint Policy like MTG has with the Reserved List because they can't afford it. For those that do usually don't last long due to how crowded the Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game Market is.

On 12/6/2017 at 7:02 AM, Denithan said:

We, the players, stand at the precipice of the next age of card games, and horrifyingly enough, we need to elect whose going to have a big name in that era. Right now, digital card games are having the easiest time of it because of how easily they can reach audiences, but at the end of the day, they can't take the mantle.

Digital Card Games are already taking the mantle whether we like it or not because to these companies they feel as though that they can make more of a profit due to the lower overhead. The potential growth of digital product far exceeds anything in paper. Does that mean it's the only path forward in order for these companies to adapt to an evolving market? Of course not but at the end of the day it's what's in the companies best interest, not ours. Local game stores are already proving to be an issue for a lot of these companies to the point where they don't want to have anything to do with them anymore.

Paper Magic makes up only 35% of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro's total revenue of MTG compared to MTGO which apparently is more successful, not to mention that the supporting infrastructure for Paper Magic is at an all time low due to the low print quality of products. Nobody likes the DCI number system since it only exists as a way to police and dox players rather than truly reward them. This seems pretty obvious given that they require DCI numbers for players playing at sanctioned events while pulling back any kind of rewards or incentives. If they push into digital they can force every player onto the DCI system since you'd need it to play MTG Arena just like MTGO.

Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Game companies seem to be going the way of big box retailers and the digital market, hoping that local game stores will stay open via tournament attendance and what few product lines they're getting exclusively. R&D head designer Mark Rosewater is one of the few people at Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro whose keeping Paper Magic alive right now. If the sexual harassment allegations forcing his resignation end up becoming true then that'd be the death knell for Paper Magic as we know it. Most of the senior staff members that have been working with him since 2000 have probably already left by now.

Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro recently hired a former Microsoft intern in 2016 as their new president whose very persistent on pushing digital over paper by default. Him and the former president have been wanting to get rid of the Pro Tour for years now. They don't want competitive MTG players being the face of the game anymore with all the recent cheating allegations going on when the 5 color Planeswalker mascots gives the company a more positive image in order to silence their critics. This Microsoft intern now has more leeway to focus primarily on MTG Arena because it's easier to create an ecosystem that focuses on elements they can control rather than what they're unable to.

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