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Littlebig

Red amplified hero 18

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1 time
3 red announcement
3 red stop
3 heroic spheres
3 defiant challenge 
2 red retreat

3 red panic
3 red relaxation
2 vtp 

1 android efficiency drill
1 android attack drill
1 red forward stance drill
1 red intimidation drill

3 red flee
3 red reverse
2 red brace
2 red duck

3 18's toss
3 18's D disk
3 red static shot
3 sinister choke
2 energy toss
3 red leftbolt
3 red right blast 
3 red heating beam

So this is an idea for a deck I've been wanting to try out since revelations was released. Since I don't have ink for my printer yet I haven't been able to test it, but I thought it would be nice to share with all of you what I've been working on.

this is a roughly similar list to a somewhat recently posted deck here, an amplified krillin, that operates on the same principles I think, but without testing or seeing either in action I don't know how truthful that statement is. 

With that said:

The main idea is to get your attack drill and efficiency drills in play so your styled attacks swing for 7 life everytime, including her named cards. We play a small drill engine to ensure those drills stay in play and because of 18's and the mastery's parenthetical powers your two cost attacks should be free to play, unless there's a clarification in their interaction that I'm not aware of.

In theory, this deck should do well against any physical beats deck. It is a camp build, so maybe someone could fit NDB 2 in here somewhere along with whatever other tech cards you find necessary. I built a core of the deck so I intentially didn't try to include any counters or meta calls. I feel it's best to tweak accordingly. Should someone get around to testing this before I do I would love to hear your thoughts.

in short,

set up your board, put as much pressure as you can, hope you kill them.

 

 

 

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Wait efficiency drill says minimum 5 AFTER mods and android attack drill is a mod right? 

Also energy toss seems kinda garbo unless you are a pure earthling. The problem is you got cheap attacks that are only good if you have your drills out but everyone has drill hate because Ret isn’t frozen yet.

18’s lv1 is probly too weak to seal a game. She probably shines with unleashed and android presence. I think Android efficiency drill is probably destined for namekian, orange, or a level hopping red deck with access to trailing blast. 

 

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3 hours ago, Jaith1 said:

Wait efficiency drill says minimum 5 AFTER mods and android attack drill is a mod right? 

Also energy toss seems kinda garbo unless you are a pure earthling. The problem is you got cheap attacks that are only good if you have your drills out but everyone has drill hate because Ret isn’t frozen yet.

18’s lv1 is probly too weak to seal a game. She probably shines with unleashed and android presence. I think Android efficiency drill is probably destined for namekian, orange, or a level hopping red deck with access to trailing blast. 

 

Wait hold on so how does effiency work then? 

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Hope this makes sense. Efficiency Drill makes all your attacks that do less than 5 life cards do 5 life cards. When it says "after modifiers", that's including things like Android Attack Drill. Android Attack Drill does not stack on top of the attacks that Efficiency Drill affects. Rather if both are in play, Android Attack Drill only affects attacks that inherently do 5+ life without Efficiency Drill's help.

Definitely get rid of Energy Toss. Without the trait effect which 18 can't trigger, it's trash here. There has to be something better to play.

I'll also echo that any 18 deck needs to level. The hero level 1 isn't the worst but it's not worth camping on.

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2 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

Hope this makes sense. Efficiency Drill makes all your attacks that do less than 5 life cards do 5 life cards. When it says "after modifiers", that's including things like Android Attack Drill. Android Attack Drill does not stack on top of the attacks that Efficiency Drill affects. Rather if both are in play, Android Attack Drill only affects attacks that inherently do 5+ life without Efficiency Drill's help.

Definitely get rid of Energy Toss. Without the trait effect which 18 can't trigger, it's trash here. There has to be something better to play.

I'll also echo that any 18 deck needs to level. The hero level 1 isn't the worst but it's not worth camping on.

So if I understand this correctly, a 2 life attack will be buffed to 5 because of effiency drill even with attack drill because with AD, that attack would have dealt only 4 life. The upside is that "-" modifiers like hiding drill and cell jr, trapped would effectively be negated. Thanks for the clarification you two.

as for the energy toss, I re-read the card and happened to miss the text that states " if you only have ONE trait" lol my bad definitely will need a replacement for that, no question. Like I said this is a core but since it was stated that retribution is currently very active that drill hate has become mandatory, it may be best to swap out the energy toss for freezing beams.

personally I think this deck can camp but with enough drill recursion it may be entirely possible to play an anger/level up variant. I would like to rejuv Ddisks and toss back into the deck without having to rely entirely on DC. 

So far 

-2 energy toss

+2 freezing beam

but I am open to other suggestions.

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You have it right on Efficiency Drill. You energy attacks that do life cards will never be less than five.

I don't know how much anger you can put in here to make that work, but definitely fit in Unleashed. It may be a tough climb to get to 4 but her 3 has some nasty value. While not direct Drill hate, perhaps Dig can help. Leveling your opponent may not always be a good idea but it gets Drills off the field and makes your energy attacks unpreventable, helping your original concept. Works well if you can keep up the pressure.

Regarding Energy Toss, tell me about it. I was pretty disappointed when 18 couldn't use it.

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29 minutes ago, Mysterious Youth said:

You have it right on Efficiency Drill. You energy attacks that do life cards will never be less than five.

I don't know how much anger you can put in here to make that work, but definitely fit in Unleashed. It may be a tough climb to get to 4 but her 3 has some nasty value. While not direct Drill hate, perhaps Dig can help. Leveling your opponent may not always be a good idea but it gets Drills off the field and makes your energy attacks unpreventable, helping your original concept. Works well if you can keep up the pressure.

Regarding Energy Toss, tell me about it. I was pretty disappointed when 18 couldn't use it.

If I go that route, the best changes I can see are taking out the announcements, DC, and energy toss clearing room for an unleashed engine with or without double IDYG or choosing some burst anger cards. With retribution in mind it might be better to go unleashed considering there is a lot of anti anger as well. I'll go over some card choices and see what I can pull up.

edit: question though, freezing beam is an energy attack but deals AT+2 stages. If attack drill is in play granting it +2 life, will effiency drill modify the attack? My guess is yes but I got effiency drill wrong at first so I'm doubting myself lol

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Efficiency Drill will make Freezing Beam do AT+2 stages and 5 life cards because after the modifier from Android Attack Drill it now does life cards when it previously didn't.

Good luck. It's a shame that even with such blatantly good effects on 18's 3 and 4, getting there is the problem and while her 1 and 2 aren't the worst they just don't cut it. I'd love to be proven wrong.

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37 minutes ago, Mysterious Youth said:

Efficiency Drill will make Freezing Beam do AT+2 stages and 5 life cards because after the modifier from Android Attack Drill it now does life cards when it previously didn't.

Good luck. It's a shame that even with such blatantly good effects on 18's 3 and 4, getting there is the problem and while her 1 and 2 aren't the worst they just don't cut it. I'd love to be proven wrong.

My god, retribution 18 is just better isn't it? Lol

And thank you. I'll try the build minus energy toss for freezing beams and tinker around with other variantions as well. If you or anyone else reading this would like to test this out and give feedback I would love to hear it. Still going to be a good minute until I get the ink I need for my printer but hopefully I'll be able to test it myself soon along with some other ideas I've been bouncing around in my spare time. I'll be uploading those as well when I have the time.

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6 hours ago, Thearbiter20x6 said:

There was a Red Amplified 18 at the Dennis Games that did quite well if I remember, though I do not remember if it made top 8 or not.  It might have bubbled out.

You wouldn't happen to know where to get a deck list would you? I tried to google but nothing came but I thought I'd ask anyway.

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13 hours ago, Littlebig said:

My god, retribution 18 is just better isn't it? Lol

And thank you. I'll try the build minus energy toss for freezing beams and tinker around with other variantions as well. If you or anyone else reading this would like to test this out and give feedback I would love to hear it. Still going to be a good minute until I get the ink I need for my printer but hopefully I'll be able to test it myself soon along with some other ideas I've been bouncing around in my spare time. I'll be uploading those as well when I have the time.

I try not to succumb to Retribution if I can but it's so solid it can make lackluster MPs do okay which is irritating.

If you stick with Drills here, definitely put in Red Despair Drill. Manipulating your anger with the Amplified Mastery to keep yourself at 4 or less anger can add up to +8 life to an attack. Imagine that with Destructo Disk.

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2 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

I try not to succumb to Retribution if I can but it's so solid it can make lackluster MPs do okay which is irritating.

If you stick with Drills here, definitely put in Red Despair Drill. Manipulating your anger with the Amplified Mastery to keep yourself at 4 or less anger can add up to +8 life to an attack. Imagine that with Destructo Disk.

Sounds spicy, will definitely try to find room for despair drill. I've always wanted to use it too. I have it in an amplified wheelo list I've worked up to that I'm going to post soon. I've been lurking these forums for a couple years but since they've dead lately (in this board anyway) so I want to liven things up a bit and throw around some ideas, no matter how crazy ( looking at red wheelo over here). 

As for retribution, when it first came out I was pretty stoked because orange is one of my favorite play styles and adaptive mastery is probably my favorite, but after looking at other retribution lists and seeing how similar every build was, it got really stale for me. I remember someone here once said that the only things that change is the mp stack, named and alignment cards. 

Surprises me that retribution wasn't chosen for the most recent frozen list.

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I like Adaptive a lot too but those effects just aren't enough.

Last year it was Saiyan Empowered and Namekian Restored that dominated the Kais. And so they were frozen. I've heard a lot of complaints about Retribution but I suppose since it isn't winning anything or not enough people are taking it to tournaments so that they could win, it was left alone.  Same with Awakening Goku.

Then there's the whole cards can't be frozen for two years thing or something like that.

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17 hours ago, Littlebig said:

You wouldn't happen to know where to get a deck list would you? I tried to google but nothing came but I thought I'd ask anyway.

I do not have knowledge of the deck list, sadly.

8 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

I like Adaptive a lot too but those effects just aren't enough.

Last year it was Saiyan Empowered and Namekian Restored that dominated the Kais. And so they were frozen. I've heard a lot of complaints about Retribution but I suppose since it isn't winning anything or not enough people are taking it to tournaments so that they could win, it was left alone.  Same with Awakening Goku.

Then there's the whole cards can't be frozen for two years thing or something like that.

Retribution has won an event here and there but a lot of people feel dirty using it apparently. xD  I am in an OCTGN league that just put up their round one pairings and the deck spread is surprisingly varied.  Of the 50 entrants, there are 43 different combinations with all legal mastery cards represented except Black Perceptive and Black Conflict (and I would argue perceptive is viable now with certain mps).  There are only 3 retribution decks.  Red Amplified is the most represented mastery at 6.  Good thing I tossed in a special card to deal with that mastery...muahahahaha.

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5 hours ago, ChangelingBard said:

New Orange is 18s home.  Ton of rejuvenation and constant anger.   There's a serviceable anger chain between the mastery and a few drills if you want to mppv.  Also -6 -5 from every attack is too good to pass up.

You have me interested. Is there a mock up list you could show me?

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Is there any synergy between Combative and 18 besides Android cards being styled for the prevention? The potential extra attack from Toss to keep the prevention going? It's very unfortunate that the Mastery can't get the Android Drills back.

Trying to see if Combative is just another Retribution for her or other MPs in that there's basically no synergy and it only works because Retribution's dumb in its own way.

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On 1/23/2018 at 4:59 PM, Littlebig said:

You have me interested. Is there a mock up list you could show me?

I have a very basic list atm.  I'll post a it sometime soon hopefully.

On 1/23/2018 at 5:58 PM, Mysterious Youth said:

Is there any synergy between Combative and 18 besides Android cards being styled for the prevention? The potential extra attack from Toss to keep the prevention going? It's very unfortunate that the Mastery can't get the Android Drills back.

Trying to see if Combative is just another Retribution for her or other MPs in that there's basically no synergy and it only works because Retribution's dumb in its own way.

Ret was all about the non constant drills, while Combative is focused on turtling against physical with a way to get drills back.  18's synergy is with the extra styled rejuvenation and unstoppable for prevention on demand.  In play testing I found Android Attack Drill and Android efficiency drill taking a backburner to styled drills like Conference Drill and Examination Drill, so the mastery not getting them back isn't a big deal.  

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On 1/24/2018 at 8:53 PM, ChangelingBard said:

I have a very basic list atm.  I'll post a it sometime soon hopefully.

Ret was all about the non constant drills, while Combative is focused on turtling against physical with a way to get drills back.  18's synergy is with the extra styled rejuvenation and unstoppable for prevention on demand.  In play testing I found Android Attack Drill and Android efficiency drill taking a backburner to styled drills like Conference Drill and Examination Drill, so the mastery not getting them back isn't a big deal.  

Is it just playing an anger/aggressive play style while denying your opponent any meaningful damage?

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I'm just guessing but it sounds like it's aggressive with tiny damage while denying your opponent meaningful damage. It's not exactly energy beatdown but attacks enough to trigger the Mastery for Examination and maybe Captivity Drill for the anger.

I'd be interested in seeing a list as well to see what/how many Drills make it in. I feel like getting your Drills out is too slow since it's one per combat and that's if you don't rejuvenate Time or other key cards instead. And once you level they go away unless you max out Conference Drill. It wouldn't be like Adaptive where the Drill wall gradually gets bigger and bigger regardless of leveling.

Regarding Amplified, I think it has to be said that there will be some level of camping on 1. You won't always have Unleashed and there's not that much anger on the attacks being played, at least not reliably so to count on it for leveling every game.

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22 hours ago, Mysterious Youth said:

I'm just guessing but it sounds like it's aggressive with tiny damage while denying your opponent meaningful damage. It's not exactly energy beatdown but attacks enough to trigger the Mastery for Examination and maybe Captivity Drill for the anger.

I'd be interested in seeing a list as well to see what/how many Drills make it in. I feel like getting your Drills out is too slow since it's one per combat and that's if you don't rejuvenate Time or other key cards instead. And once you level they go away unless you max out Conference Drill. It wouldn't be like Adaptive where the Drill wall gradually gets bigger and bigger regardless of leveling.

Regarding Amplified, I think it has to be said that there will be some level of camping on 1. You won't always have Unleashed and there's not that much anger on the attacks being played, at least not reliably so to count on it for leveling every game.

I think conference would be for builds that want to level (obviously) but whenever I look at combative I think of more control based MPs like garlic or Roshi. Roshi was actually the first to come to mind when I first saw the mastery.

if I were to level with this build I would have to remove cards like DC and announcement which are kind of here to actually test the cards (not DC, just new stuff in general). As for DC itself, I’ve always wanted to use it and this seemed like a decent build to try it. It’ll probably be removed but I wanted to try it anyway.

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