New Pan vs New Caulifla

[Luclin 0]

Wondering what you guys think is a superior red leader.....

They both seem like top tier leaders. However, I am still debating weather losing Shugesh and nimbus is worth leaving yellow.

But if I were to go mono red....what do you guys think? The new Caulifla boosts pretty much all of your battle cards and makes it impossible for your opponent to lock you out of awaken.

But the new Pan is an insane draw engine, buffing one of your cards and allowing you to naturally draw 3 cards a turn, (Draw step, her ability, her attack once awakened.) 

What do you guys think?

[Denithan 70]

To be real with you, it all comes down to their encompassing support, and with that in mind, I'd currently say that Pan is slightly better off.

[Luclin 0]

How is their support all that different?

I don't see any real changes between their support.

Their combo's both +10 and draw a card...I dont see any crazy card that must use Pan or Must use Universe 6 Cauli.

Just trying to see what I am missing

Although I happen to agree with you atm that potential 3 draw per turn from Pan is better than mass buff that Cauli gives.

[sh0ryu_repp4 732]

Unless Caulifa gets crazy support (which I don't see happening) Pan is the go to 100%

[Justin McBride 397]

I think Caulifa is superior in most ways: She can self awaken and draw cards. She can boost your board and the turn where you go from 5 to 3  life gives your leader and all your battle cards a +10k boost. She's nuts. 

[leonkennedy411 5]

Self awaken is still really important I think. Both are good, but I feel Caulifa is a little better. 
Running the green vegetable package with the three drop Terror Scythe Goku Black is NUTS. 

[sh0ryu_repp4 732]

Something that I feel everyone keeps overlooking is that Caulifa has a built in timer to her ability. Once she is awakened, using her ability more than one or two more times is essentially suicide.

[The Bear 669]

19 hours ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

Something that I feel everyone keeps overlooking is that Caulifa has a built in timer to her ability. Once she is awakened, using her ability more than one or two more times is essentially suicide.

True, but to echo Justin's point, being able to chain the unawakened and awakened powers can provide a lot of momentum. Sure, her power become suicide when awakened, but you should be close to closing out the game by that point anyway.  Blue Vegeta's power became suicidal when he awakened and he was tier 1 for 2 sets; the ability to self-awaken is one of the most powerful effects in the game.

[sh0ryu_repp4 732]

1 minute ago, The Bear said:

True, but to echo Justin's point, being able to chain the unawakened and awakened powers can provide a lot of momentum. Sure, her power become suicide when awakened, but you should be close to closing out the game by that point anyway.  Blue Vegeta's power became suicidal when he awakened and he was tier 1 for 2 sets; the ability to self-awaken is one of the most powerful effects in the game.

This is true, but I feel like with Vegeta he wasn't dead in the water once he couldn't use his ability anymore. He still had his boost from having energy. Once you are too low, Caluifa essentially becomes a blank card outside of being able to draw on the attack.

Just my two cents.

[The Bear 669]

16 minutes ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

This is true, but I feel like with Vegeta he wasn't dead in the water once he couldn't use his ability anymore. He still had his boost from having energy. Once you are too low, Caluifa essentially becomes a blank card outside of being able to draw on the attack.

Just my two cents.

Vegeta has to use his power for the +10k boost.  He and Califa "blank" in the same way once they hit 1 life.

[sh0ryu_repp4 732]

3 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Vegeta has to use his power for the +10k boost.  He and Califa "blank" in the same way once they hit 1 life.

You are right, I forgot about that. With that in mind, I would argue that leaders like Vegeta and Caulifa are blank once they hit 3 life, because in this meta putting yourself that low on purpose is suicide.

[The Bear 669]

51 minutes ago, sh0ryu_repp4 said:

You are right, I forgot about that. With that in mind, I would argue that leaders like Vegeta and Caulifa are blank once they hit 3 life, because in this meta putting yourself that low on purpose is suicide.

Completely disagree.  A large part of playing leaders that can self awaken and continue to hit themselves once awakened is knowing how to control the tempo of the game and when to best use the ability.  Going from 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 life is well worth it if you can win the game.  Playing Ghost Attack Gotenks and then using Califa's ability is one such situation where it may be worth it, depending on opponents hand size and remaining life.  Saying the ability gets blanked at 3 doesnt make sense to me because... well, it just doesnt.  Using the ability becomes more risky, but that is exactly the point: a big gamble for a big payoff.

[sh0ryu_repp4 732]

20 hours ago, The Bear said:

Completely disagree.  A large part of playing leaders that can self awaken and continue to hit themselves once awakened is knowing how to control the tempo of the game and when to best use the ability.  Going from 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 life is well worth it if you can win the game.  Playing Ghost Attack Gotenks and then using Califa's ability is one such situation where it may be worth it, depending on opponents hand size and remaining life.  Saying the ability gets blanked at 3 doesnt make sense to me because... well, it just doesnt.  Using the ability becomes more risky, but that is exactly the point: a big gamble for a big payoff.

I understand what you mean, and it is situation depending, but for me considering how many Double and Triple Strikers there are, and how easy it is to get them out in this meta, it is just too much of a risk imo